The myth of the Vatican being a state.

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,699
Portugal
#11
Mm. How many of the criteria that the Vatican does not fit also applies to San Marino?

Also, I believe the Swiss Guard act as the police force of the Vatican.
True, and that could be applied to most of the micro-states, as already mentioned.

But, even if I didn't read the book, the major premises, according to the linked review seem to be about the paedophile scandals in the Catholic Church and not about the concept of statehood for the Vatican. So the title thread seems quite misleading, to say the least.
 
Oct 2018
1,209
Adelaide south Australia
#12
True, and that could be applied to most of the micro-states, as already mentioned.

But, even if I didn't read the book, the major premises, according to the linked review seem to be about the paedophile scandals in the Catholic Church and not about the concept of statehood for the Vatican. So the title thread seems quite misleading, to say the least.
Apologies, if you think I mislead. That was not my intention.

Yes, the book is more to do with the legal culpability of the Church, specifically the pope.

The claims Robertson makes about the Vatican as a state are not the major them of the book, but I think included more too give a 'flavour' to the main theme. I read the book in about 2010. At the time I was impressed by the argument that the Vatican may be a de facto State, but is not one technically.

I accepted the argument because it was lucidly presented and sounded right. I accepted Robertson as having expert opinion because of his legal credentials.

I thought and still think, the notion is worth posting. It seems that I may have misremembered and presented the case poorly. For that, I apologise.

Below is Geoffrey Robertsons Wiki entry ,it may give you an idea of why I accept him as a credible source:


"Geoffrey Ronald Robertson AO, QC (born 30 September 1946)[3] is a human rights barrister, academic, author and broadcaster. He holds dual Australian and British citizenship.

Robertson is a founder and joint head of Doughty Street Chambers.[4] He serves as a Master of the Bench at the Middle Temple, a recorder, and visiting professor at Queen Mary University of London.[5][3][6] "

Geoffrey Robertson - Wikipedia
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
26,878
Italy, Lago Maggiore
#15
Technically the Swiss Guard is a mercenary Army. The police of the Vatican is the gendarmerie ["gendarmeria", it's the corp where the Italian guy in the movie Angels and Demons served].

Regarding the condition of the "Vatican State" the Italian Republic recognizes its sovereignty and since Italian police needs the consensus of the Vatican authorities to ensure the security in Saint Peter's square ... it seems that we consider it a real sovereign state.

An other evidence is that we need the permission of the Vatican authorities to investigate about the activities of the IOR [Institute for Religious Works, the bank of the Vatican State].

The State of the Church cannot be totally a UN member since it cannot sign the declaration of the human rights: it doesn't recognize the right to freedom of religion ... you cannot be citizen of the Vatican if you are not Catholic. So that at UN the Vatican is a sovereign permanent observer.
 

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