The New World history - The Fake Zeus and the Bulgarians

Nov 2012
881
Bulgaria, Black Sea region
I would like to open a new thread which is very controversial but at the same time interesting. I would like to invite everyone to discuss the topic.

I have to warn you in advance that some of you may consider the following statements being a Bulgarian propaganda. If you are too sensitive please do not stop reading here. :)

To begin with scientifically it has been proven that Black Sea was once flooded which turned from a fresh lake into the sea we know today. The flood in a combination with heavy rainfalls covered about 160,000 square kilometers of land within the period of one year which some believe coincides with the legends of the Great Flood. The research is documented by National Geographic.

1999POBeo..64...95S Page 95
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URPaMGjnCvU]PREHISTORIC MEGASTORMS - NOAH'S GREAT FLOOD - YouTube[/ame]

Yavor Yosifov Shopov who researched the Flood of Black Sea has a theory which explains that a native Balkan population was dispersed around Europe and Asia. The researcher together with a team of scientists from the National Institute of Science (Bulgaria) have investigated millions of toponyms (names of places and people) around the word which prove to be originally Bulgarian and/or found on the territory of the Balkans.
The researchers explains that there is a parallel between the cultures of India and that of Bulgaria and the Proto-Bulgarians. Not only the language, but also the legends and stories of Gods and the traditions of celebrating those Gods and feast are quite similar. The researcher claims that such Gods and feasts are borrowed by the Indian people. He explains that after the Flood of Black Sea the native Balkanic people dispersed and settled in new regions such as India where they introduced a new culture.
A map is made of the Balkanic migrations based on the parallels of culture and language which shows that the proto-Bulgarians (Balkanic peoples) migrated and settled throughout time in India, Pakistan, Iran, Turkey, Armenia, and others. A genetic research made in 2004 positions all European groups close to one another and shows the differences with the result of non-Europeans. In the map (I will try to bring a link) Bulgaria is positioned in the Middle of all Europeans where the closest genetic relations are those to Western Europeans such as British, Italian (Tuscany region), French, Portuguese, and German peoples.
The following claims are made which sound very striking to some and thus I am just going to list them and try to bring English sources which I have found.

- The earliest version of the Great Flood is found written on a clay tablet (sources: The Earliest Version of the Babylonian Deluge Story and the Temple Library of Nippul by H.V. HILPRECHT, 1910) where a conclusion is made that this version is oldest than the Sumerian with about 500 years and is not written by the Sumerians, although the tablet itself is found in Nippur.

The clay says ''I the powerful SHAR of the Kutii, ruler of the four quarters of the world'' Enrida Vezir. The title SHAR is equivalent to the Bulgarian (and Slavic) TSAR (ТЦАР) meaning KING. This SHAR is the first king who ruled Sumer and Akkad around 2478 AC according to the Nippur chronology.

Hilprecht writes that the story of the Flood documented on the clay of Nippur is the earliest version of the Biblical Flood, both stories are identical, except for the names of the people and geographical places.
- Noah's Ark is called Magur which is the same as the name of the ''Maguarata'' cave in Bulgaria; it is a boat house;
- The Noah's Ark called Magur is stranded in the lands of the Kutti called Misir;
- The location of the lands of the Kutii remains unknown;
- The last Kind of the Kutti is named Tirikana which cannot be found, Tiricana ruled only 40 days and was most likely a military general;
- The name Tirikana is similar to the name of the brother of proto-Bulgarian ruler called Tarkan. The toponyms of the name Tarkan is found in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran (Tarkan shah; Tarkan abat; Tarkani), Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Romania, and Hungary where the last countries are know to have been part of Great Bulgaria (Veliki Bulgar).

According to a Russian map, the Kutii people inhabited the Iranian plateau.

Bulgarian toponyms are found in great number in Iran. The ones which are closest to the Kutii name are the Kutigurs which are also known as Kuchi Bulgar. The Kutigurs and Onogurs are know as the proto-Bulgarians.

Near Godin Tepe in Iran is the city of KUCHI which is a word not found originally in the Persian language. Royal Ontario Museum finds on this place ceramic object dated 3200-3000 BC. Those ceramics resemble in details the ones found in Gradeshnitsa, Bulgaria which have been dated 6000 BC and those in Gulubnik III, Bulgaria dated 6200-5400 BC. The neolithic Chavdar culture and ceramics found in Bulgaria are also dated 6200-5400 BC.

Moreover, the Kutian ceramics found in Godin Tepe V resemble in detail the ceramics from the early neolithic settlement Ilindentsi in Bulgaria (6200-5500 BC).
Another parallel is that of proto-Bulgarians and the Vedic tribes. A map showing the habitat of the Vedic tribes (The History and Culture of the Indian culture, 1968, Vol.1 The Vedic Age, Bombay,p.263) completely coincides with the map of the toponyms formed from the ethnic names of the Bulgarians and their branches (Kutii, Kuchi Bulgar, etc) and dynastic clans DULO outlining former territories inhabited by them in the Indian peninsula (Y.Y.Shopov, 2003).

The Indian Kuru Kshetra War (7th century BC) is described as a war between two brothers called Kuru and Pando. The name Kuru is also the name of the 2nd emperor of the Kutigurs in Sumer. The name Pando is found in Bulgaria as a personal name and family names Pandov, Pandev, etc.

According to Shopov, one part of the proto-Bulgarians living in India moved to Bangladesh while the others returned to the north. It can be concluded that the proto-Bulgarians divided at that period of time in India. The Magdaha empire of India (Bangladesh) is called Balhara which coincides with the movement of the proto-Bulgarians.

Bactria (Balhara) described by Petar Dobrev who claims that this is the mother land of the proto-Bulgarians is actually found after the war of Indian Kuru Kshetra. The Bulgarian toponyms found in Bactria are more recent than those found in India and Iran. Bactria is also believed to have been partially found by the proto-Bulgarians who took part in the Kushan empire.

In the Indian language the name Bulgaria (БЪЛГАРИЯ) changes to Balkharia and Balhara due to the sounds changes and differences in language. In Ukraine, the name given to the Bulgarians is Balhari unlike others who say Bulgari or Bolgari.

* this data has been introduced by Y.Y. Shopov (Initiation of the Migration of Vedic to India by a Catastrophic Flooding of the Black Sea by Mediterranean Sea during the Holecene, LIPACS 3, International Conference of IGBP, 5-8 March 2009, India)


The number of Bulgarian toponyms found is the following: Pakistan - 2571; Iran - 781; India - 647; Afghanistan - 390; Bangladesh - 186; Uzbekistan - 144.
The people of Kutii or Gutii is equivalent to the people of Kutii-Gurii or the Kutiguri (proto-Bulgarians).

According to Y.Shopov the proto-Bulgarians were one of the dynasties who created the Persian empire which is acknowledged by the modern Iranians.

In Iran is found the earliest equivalent object of the Bulgarian ''Martenica'' found in the chest of the Great priest and ruler Shapur the Great from the Sassanid dynasty. Moreover, the proto-Bulgarians are depicted on the friezes in the tombs of six Achaemenid emperors, among whom Xerxes and Artaxerxes. The following scene is displayed: mobile platform, on which stays the emperor of the Persian Empire carried by 28 soldiers from 28 different dynasties. The sculptures themselves are made ​​so that it can be recognized by the clothing, uniforms and facial features of each of these soldiers who belongs to which nation. The first soldier in the front row has a Bulgarian hat with a very distinctive shape. The Bulgarian was described by the Persian historian Zakaria Qazvin in the 13th century. In one of his treatise there is a fish, which he called the fish-shaped Bulgarian hat.

It turned out that in the Bulgarian folklore there are some traces of the fact that Bulgarians lived in the Persian Empire. In the Bulgarian language there is a saying "to rob the parsa." The name "Parsa" means "tax", "tax" in Persian, "Parsa" is the name of the city of Persepolis, which is not really a city, but was used only three days a year to collect taxes where all people of the empire were gathered. There is also a resemblance between the Bulgarian culture and Sassanid culture as well.

Obviously, modern Bulgarians are Indo-Europeans, from which it follows that they lived together with others, maybe they were not distinguished as a nation in what is now Bulgaria and Romania, when the flooding of Black Sea happened around 7,500 years ago. The flooding pushed the so called Indo-Europeans who lived along the banks of Black sea to Europe where they separated into branches such as Slavs, Celts, Greeks, etc. Ancient Bulgarians fall in the proportion of Indo-Europeans who migrated to Asia Minor and from there to Iran. Living there for a long time, only two branches of them have been identified. It is well know from the Volga Bulgaria and Great Bolgar that the Bulgars were not homogeneous.
 
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Nov 2012
881
Bulgaria, Black Sea region
Why I said the fake Zeus?

Bulgarians believe that the name of Zeus is borrowed by the Greeks from the proto-Bulgarians who lived on the Balkans in ancient times.

The name Zeus is equivalent to the Bulgarian words ''JIVO'', ''JIVES'', ''JIVOT'' meaning ''Living'' and ''Alive'' and ''Life''.

The character ''Ж'' used in ''Живо'' (Jivo), ''ЖИВЕЕ/ЖИВЕЕШ'' (Jives), and ''ЖИВОТ'' (Jivot) is a magical symbol showing the TRIAD of the Upper and Lower worlds. The lack of ''Ж'' sound in the Greek language makes them use the letter ''Z''.

Shopov not only states that the proto-Bulgarians have a major part of a number of empires but also that the proto-Bulgarians know from 7th century AD resemble to a great extend in culture (burial traditions, etc) the Getae people from the Thracian family.

Even the Great Byzantium empire called Romaneia or Rum is ruled by a number of locally born Thracians or Slavs.

The Greeks must admit that the Greek culture and civilization is not entirely theirs and that they have absorbed knowledge and wisdom from the people living on the Balkans before them.

Why the Bulgarians were called Barbarians, when there is significant proof that the Bulgarian people carry the culture of an ancient civilization forgotten by time? Don't the Bulgarians deserve their place in Europe and the Balkans?

The End.
 
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tornada

Ad Honoris
Mar 2013
15,385
India
The Kurushetra war was not between Kuru and Pandu. It was between a faction calling themselves the Kauravas and another called the Pandavas. The Pandavas were the sons of Pandu while the Kauravas claimed to be of the line of Kuru.

I cannot comment on the rest of the post, however the Kurukshetra is not referenced to in the Vedas. It is a post Vedic epic, long after the archaeological and literary evidence shows that the Vedic Indians were fully settled in India. I am not averse to the argument that the PIE peoples originated somewhere in the Balkans or Bulgaria, especially given the archaeological remains of symbols such as the Swastika dating back to 9000-7000 BCE. However the Mahabharata cannot be used to establish any such link since the Mahabharata is not a Vedic Era text but a post Veda text. The Vedas also significantly mention the Sapta Sindhu and other Indian geographical features such as the Himalayas, various rivers such as the Ganga and Yamuna, etc. Which means that while the Aryans could have originated in the region of Anatolia Northern Greece, by the time the Avesta and Vedas were composed they were clearly in Middle East and Indian Subcontinent.

Further i should point out, that on the scale and quality of evidence presented, other such arguments could be made about the PIE peoples originating in India, Persia or even Sundaland. The same vague evidence is presented for all those cases. The PIE remains largely a language, and at this stage, the evidence is too inconclusive to suggest any specific point or origin for the Aryans of the PIE.
 
Nov 2012
881
Bulgaria, Black Sea region
Something for the Greeks and Bulgarians to think about.

Basil II (Greek: Βασίλειος Β΄, Basileios II; 958 – 15 December 1025) was a Byzantine Emperor from the Macedonian dynasty who reigned from 10 January 976 to 15 December 1025. He was known in his time as Basil the Porphyrogenitus and Basil the Young to distinguish him from his supposed ancestor, Basil I the Macedonian.

Basil oversaw the stabilization and expansion of the eastern frontier of the Byzantine Empire, and above all, the final and complete subjugation of Bulgaria, the Empire's foremost European foe, after a prolonged struggle. For this he was nicknamed by later authors as "the Bulgar-slayer" (Greek: Βουλγαροκτόνος, Boulgaroktonos)
What is the read name of Basil - Boulgaroktonos or Boulgarohtonos? :)

a) Boulgaroktonos - meaning Bulgar-slayer
b) Boulgarohtonos - meaning born in Bulgaria / with Bulgarian descend
 
Nov 2012
881
Bulgaria, Black Sea region
The Kurushetra war was not between Kuru and Pandu. It was between a faction calling themselves the Kauravas and another called the Pandavas. The Pandavas were the sons of Pandu while the Kauravas claimed to be of the line of Kuru.

I cannot comment on the rest of the post, however the Kurukshetra is not referenced to in the Vedas. It is a post Vedic epic, long after the archaeological and literary evidence shows that the Vedic Indians were fully settled in India. I am not averse to the argument that the PIE peoples originated somewhere in the Balkans or Bulgaria, especially given the archaeological remains of symbols such as the Swastika dating back to 9000-7000 BCE. However the Mahabharata cannot be used to establish any such link since the Mahabharata is not a Vedic Era text but a post Veda text. The Vedas also significantly mention the Sapta Sindhu and other Indian geographical features such as the Himalayas, various rivers such as the Ganga and Yamuna, etc. Which means that while the Aryans could have originated in the region of Anatolia Northern Greece, by the time the Avesta and Vedas were composed they were clearly in Middle East and Indian Subcontinent.

Further i should point out, that on the scale and quality of evidence presented, other such arguments could be made about the PIE peoples originating in India, Persia or even Sundaland. The same vague evidence is presented for all those cases. The PIE remains largely a language, and at this stage, the evidence is too inconclusive to suggest any specific point or origin for the Aryans of the PIE.
Thank you for sharing your opinion. I am not a professional historian or something else, but just wanted to share this theory with the forum. The author suggest that there are a lot of names exclusively found in Bulgaria or former Bulgarian regions which are also found in India.

About Kuru it is a root commonly found in many Slavic and Bulgarian words. In Bulgarian, the word ''kur'' means ''male dignity/manhood'' and also used in a vulgar way. Derivative from ''kur'' is adj. ''kurav'' meaning ''hard'' or ''rocky'' which resembles the Indian Kauravas. About Pandavas we also have ''Piju and Penda'' which are related to the Bulgarian ''martenica''

Pizho and Penda are the names of the two small wool dolls of a typical Bulgarian Martenitsa. Pizho is the male doll, usually in white dominating color. Penda is the female doll, usually in red dominating color, and is distinguished by her skirt.
Also there some family names like Pandov(a), Pendov(a), etc.
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martenitsa]Martenitsa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]



About the Vedic and Bulgarian similarities there are some good examples.

- Bulgarian celebration SURVA and ''Suria lamia'' (Суря ламя)

In Hindi word ending with ''iia'' means a profession also found in Bulgarian (ex. kalaidjiia). The same is for words ending with ''va'', for example in Bulgarian we have ''kurva'' and ''surva'' where ''sur'' means ''light'' and ''surva'' means ''insemination'' (the Sun rays are inseminating the Earth). Suria lamia is most closely related to the Japanese dragon who is surrounding the Sun which happens during the solar eclipse.

Surva and Suria lamia is a feast day celebrated by the Bulgarians on the shortest day of the year around Christmas.

Surya or Suraya or Phra Athit is the chief solar deity in Hinduism. The term Surya also refers to the Sun, in general.

Sur in Hindi means ''light'' which is the same in Bulgarian language (ex. sur elen meaning white light/white deer)


In the Vedas, SURAYA has other names which are also found in Bulgarian

Hindi - Bulgarian

Arka - Iarka ---> bright
Aruna - Zaran(a) ---> dawn, dayspring
Karam - Karam ---> driving
Din/m Kara - Den Kara ---> the sun drives the day
Vi Vasvat - Svetia /Svelina ---> to shine; light
Mitra - Mitra (Bulgarian name)
Rumen (driver of the Sun) - Rumen (meaning red in Bulgarian, ex. porumeneia)

In total 46 Bulgarian divinities are found in the Vedas, for example:

Agni - Ogan ---> deity of the fire
Hala/Hali - Hala
Deva - Deva


Also, we have the same words for father-in-law, mother-in-law, daughter-in-law, bride, and brother-in-law

Bulgarian - Sanskrit - Latin - Old Greek - Old English

svekar - svasru - soker - ekkrus - sveor
svekarva - swasri - sokra - ekkura - sveger
snaha - snusa - nurus - nuus - snoru
nevesta - navodha - sponsa - numfe - brude
dever - devr - levir - gaer - takur
 

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Nov 2013
842
Lykaonia
It is Voulgaroktonos, if it was hthonos it is very untypical also in greek the difference is much more clear. Nobody uses this like that,or I see this for the first time.
Autochthonos is the typical use, or pronunces ypo-chthonios and so go on, but Voulgarohtonos its not compatible cause in greek its not a htonos it is spelled hthonos,a greek x "he" and "th" "theta", makes a clear difference from ktonos which is "kappa" and "taf".

Also I have picture that you hang on in things like that, which are written by fabricated propaganda history for political reasons.

Wasnt the originallybulgar tribe a turkish tribe which with the time slavized by a slavic speaking majority?
If thracian words and culturally elements or even some toponyms and words still excist (which I believe) thaan why you named that protobulgar?
 
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Sep 2012
927
Prague, Czech Republic
I have to warn you in advance that some of you may consider the following statements being a Bulgarian propaganda.
'Nationalist Bulgarian propaganda' may be the polite way of putting it, but 'steaming pile of bullcrap' or 'obvious nonsense' would be more accurate.

Whenever you come across a theory which requires all philological and archaeological research up to this point to be completely wrong; and results in the place of origin of the author being the birthplace of all humanity or civillisation, it's wise to stop reading, since everything that follows is clearly going to be false.

The most hilariously egregious error I noticed in the OP was the one about 'Shar' in an ancient Mesopotamian tablet being derived from Bulgarian 'Tsar'. It's not like the origin of 'tsar' is obscure. It comes from 'Caesar',a Latin cognomen arising about 2,000 years too late to influence anything unconvered in Nippur.

The 'scholarship' involved becomes even more laughable when we note that the quoted text ("I the powerful SHAR of the Kutii, ruler of the four quarters of the world") isn't even in the tablet he appears to be talking about (CBM 13532 - claimed by H. V. Hilprecht to support the Genesis account of the flood).
 
Nov 2012
881
Bulgaria, Black Sea region
'Nationalist Bulgarian propaganda' may be the polite way of putting it, but 'steaming pile of bullcrap' or 'obvious nonsense' would be more accurate.

Whenever you come across a theory which requires all philological and archaeological research up to this point to be completely wrong; and results in the place of origin of the author being the birthplace of all humanity or civillisation, it's wise to stop reading, since everything that follows is clearly going to be false.

The most hilariously egregious error I noticed in the OP was the one about 'Shar' in an ancient Mesopotamian tablet being derived from Bulgarian 'Tsar'. It's not like the origin of 'tsar' is obscure. It comes from 'Caesar',a Latin cognomen arising about 2,000 years too late to influence anything unconvered in Nippur.

The 'scholarship' involved becomes even more laughable when we note that the quoted text ("I the powerful SHAR of the Kutii, ruler of the four quarters of the world") isn't even in the tablet he appears to be talking about (CBM 13532 - claimed by H. V. Hilprecht to support the Genesis account of the flood).
It was not said that the Tsar is derived from Shar but the opposite. About the book of Hilprecht the Bulgarian author is just quoting it. But of course you could be right there could be many mistakes. The theory is not claiming that the Bulgarians created the first civilization, it speaks about the Balkans in general.

Can you tell me more about ''caesar'' I found only this:

caesarian (n.) Look up caesarian at Dictionary.com
1923, shortening of Caesarian section (1610s); supposedly from Caius Julius Caesar, who was said to have been delivered surgically, thus legend traces his cognomen to Latin caesus past participle of caedere "to cut" (see -cide).
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=caesar&searchmode=none
 
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Nov 2012
881
Bulgaria, Black Sea region
It is Voulgaroktonos, if it was hthonos it is very untypical also in greek the difference is much more clear. Nobody uses this like that,or I see this for the first time.
Autochthonos is the typical use, or pronunces ypo-chthonios and so go on, but Voulgarohtonos its not compatible cause in greek its not a htonos it is spelled hthonos,a greek x "he" and "th" "theta", makes a clear difference from ktonos which is "kappa" and "taf".

Also I have picture that you hang on in things like that, which are written by fabricated propaganda history for political reasons.

Wasnt the originallybulgar tribe a turkish tribe which with the time slavized by a slavic speaking majority?
If thracian words and culturally elements or even some toponyms and words still excist (which I believe) thaan why you named that protobulgar?
I name it proto-Bulgars because it is the term used for the Bulgarians (who according to the Byzantines) came in 6th century to the Balkans. Shopov speaks of Bulgarians only. But it is interesting because the toponyms he uses to compare with Iran and India are from the Old Bulgarian language and dialectal forms of Bulgarian. The theory you have quoted which claims that the proto-Bulgars are Turkic people actually use words and names which were borrowed from Turkic to Bulgarian. Do you see the difference?

According to Shopov, the Iran scientists know a lot about the ancient Bulgarians. He has written in an interview that an Iranian delegate explained to him that in Persian the name Bulgar is easily explained. It means people who come from a cave, where ''gar'' means ''cave'' in Persian and ''bol'' means down or deep. It is written that when Alexander the Great came the Bulgarians hided in the caves and when he was gone they raised again in their Kingdom. (Actually, I also heard that ''gar'' means ''a town'' in Sanskrit)

Of course there are other versions about the name Bulgarians which can be also connected to the PIE *bhel meaning shining and bright people :).
 
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Nov 2012
881
Bulgaria, Black Sea region
Because I want to bring more nationalities into the discussion I will quote another thing ;)

The Bulgarians were never really under the Turkish Yoke, meaning that they were never slaves of the Ottoman empire. Until 17th century the land of the Bulgarians is referred as the Kingdom of Bulgaria by travelling German people. The Bulgarians were not slaves for the very reason that they had control over their lands and moreover they had guns and traded a lot. At the fall of the Ottoman empire the regime probably got very severe and because the Bulgarians (like today) cannot tolerate someone telling them what to do, they just raised against the empire. (I admit this is quite a speculation, maybe the Turks could explain it in a better way).