The rapid victory of Hitler against France and UK (1940).

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
20,032
SoCal
#31
Indeed they should have... but in the end they didn't. Which caused problems. Which if Gamelan honestly expected the Germans to give him more time, after the Western Front had largely been silent through 1939, would be a further symptom of the problems the French had to deal with in 1940.
"Gamelin," not "Gamelan."
 
Jan 2015
3,321
Front Lines of the Pig War
#32
Indeed they should have... but in the end they didn't. Which caused problems. Which if Gamelan honestly expected the Germans to give him more time, after the Western Front had largely been silent through 1939, would be a further symptom of the problems the French had to deal with in 1940.
They expected that the Germans might advance a few miles a day, not dozens.
 
Likes: sparky

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,710
Sydney
#34
It would have taken a few days to move several corps , The French did it in 1914
every indication was that the German were making Namur their schwerpunkt , two panzer division were racing forward
on the 12th and 13th of May , the French tanks of the 2nd DLM and 3rd DLM engaged them at Gembloux in the greatest tank battle of the campaign
about 1500 armored vehicles were involved .
it was a French success , the 1st Army deployment had been screened and they got to their objectives and dug in , checking the German again

Sedan was a small worry , there was the Meuse to cross , the Germans were not fully deployed , some reinforcements were to be send there in a matter of days
the small bridgehead could be handled by 2nd army armored forces , the intense fighting at Stonne let everyone to believe thing were "normal"

the rupture of the front wasn't fully appreciated until the 17th , it was not some local German success
It was the disintegration of whole units , breakdown of communication and report of Panzers everywhere
 
Dec 2011
1,332
Belgium
#35
It would have taken a few days to move several corps , The French did it in 1914
every indication was that the German were making Namur their schwerpunkt , two panzer division were racing forward
on the 12th and 13th of May , the French tanks of the 2nd DLM and 3rd DLM engaged them at Gembloux in the greatest tank battle of the campaign
about 1500 armored vehicles were involved .
it was a French success , the 1st Army deployment had been screened and they got to their objectives and dug in , checking the German again

Sedan was a small worry , there was the Meuse to cross , the Germans were not fully deployed , some reinforcements were to be send there in a matter of days
the small bridgehead could be handled by 2nd army armored forces , the intense fighting at Stonne let everyone to believe thing were "normal"

the rupture of the front wasn't fully appreciated until the 17th , it was not some local German success
It was the disintegration of whole units , breakdown of communication and report of Panzers everywhere
Sparky,

what if Gamelin had listened to the Deuxième bureau (French secret service) in March 1940. They had a spion on the highest level in the Nazi army, who correctly said that the "schwehrpunkt" of the panzer attack would be through the Ardennes....Hans-Thilo Schmidt...
Case Yellow, Case Red and Sealion - Page 2
Read the message from Abelard from yesterday.
(PDF) The Spy in Hitler’s Inner Circle: Hans-Thilo Schmidt and the Intelligence Network that Decoded Enigma. By Paul Paillole. Oxford, UK and PA: Casemate Publishers, 2016
https://www.amazon.com/Spy-Hitlers-Inner-Circle-Intelligence-ebook/dp/B01H39RKS0
For those, who understand French:
Notre espion chez Hitler


Kind regards, Paul.
 

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,710
Sydney
#37
There is some misunderstanding about what Generals think of Inteligence
too often they are mislead or got something wrong
the list of fake intel or gross misjudgment is long

a good general doesn't listen to all the rumors , unconfirmed plans or vague fears
strategy and its girlfriend logistics are the only thing which matter
how can I move ? where can the enemy move ?
what is a feint ? what is a real thrust ?

The German pulled a big surprise , against every probability
on paper they had , ....again , done a schliefen , this was countered quite well
the deceit of Sedan turned into a runaway success , much to everybody astonishment
 
Dec 2011
1,332
Belgium
#38
There is some misunderstanding about what Generals think of Inteligence
too often they are mislead or got something wrong
the list of fake intel or gross misjudgment is long

a good general doesn't listen to all the rumors , unconfirmed plans or vague fears
strategy and its girlfriend logistics are the only thing which matter
how can I move ? where can the enemy move ?
what is a feint ? what is a real thrust ?

The German pulled a big surprise , against every probability
on paper they had , ....again , done a schliefen , this was countered quite well
the deceit of Sedan turned into a runaway success , much to everybody astonishment
sparky, too late overhere to reply in full...
"a good general don't listen to all the rumors..."but in my oinion it wasn't a good general, while he hadn't foreseen reserves behind...and it seems Paillole has prevented Paul Reynaud on 22 March and he was sure by for instance the enygma that Thillo Schmidt was a reliable source.
But could it be that Gamelin couldn't turn off the Dyle-Breda plan, while it was already agreed with the ally Britain and he would perhaps lose his post when he remade the plan calculating in the push through the Ardennes. In any case he lost his post later on, due to "incompetence"?
See the replies from Abelard to me in the small English language forum:
Case Yellow, Case Red and Sealion - Page 3

Kind regards, Paul.
 

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,710
Sydney
#40
Exactly , planting a false info is a game everybody played
ultimately the only serious intel is about troops deployment and they accumulation of supplies

certainly the French could have been more watchful about a side show in a very difficult theater where all the advantage were on the defender side
they were hypnotized by the German move in the natural invasion highway , the low countries
that was a direct incontrovertible threat to allies
what do you think they should have done , sit on their hands ?
they minimized the possibility of a whole hostile army moving through a natural bottleneck to face a major water obstacle
it didn't make much sense
 

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