The REAL First Settlement in North America Debate

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,720
Spain
In that case talking about the influence of the Nordic is also an excess of language, isn’t it? Since their influence seems to be almost null. That the Norsemen arrived to America it is pretty consensual. That link was made. That link died. Almost no traces were left behind.



Martin, you know that the Vikings are not my field, but it seems that we can consider due the available sources (the sagas and the archaeology) that there were voyages between Europe and America, the colony of Vinland was established and didn’t fructified, so the Norse were long extinct in America when the Spanish arrived.
Tulius,

I can accept your theory and I agree with you. So Nordic don´t discover anything. If tomorrow we find a phoenican ship in America.. it doesn´t mean Phoenica discovered America.

Where are the Nordic heritage? where the Nordic exploration? the fortress? the maps? the coins? The DNA? if I write the USA Cattle in Texas etc came from Spanish cows (from Andalusian cows).. I can prove through DNA...
Where are the Nordic presence in North America?

You are very moderate and well informed. You always write base on great knowledge.. So.. May I ask you... Do you think the world knew America through "Nordic" or through Spain-Hispania (Castille-Portugal-Aragon-Leon)?
When the French and English kings read about America... Did they read what Nordic wrote or what the Spaniards were writing?

regards.
 

LatinoEuropa

Ad Honorem
Oct 2015
5,222
Matosinhos Portugal
Indigenous Americans colonized the Caribbean at least 11,000 years ago, but yes the Spanish were here before the British. Even if the author in question does not consider the Caribbean part of North America the city of St. Augustine was founded in 1565.
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Here with the answer of this post gives me reason ...
I repeat, it was the Latins of the Iberian peninsula who discovered new worlds today, new countries, others looted what the Latin peoples discovered, if they ask me what I mean by this answer, it is easy to answer, looters have discovered nothing, I also agree with you The lands that were discovered by the Iberian peoples were already inhabited on all seven continents, except for some islands, but it was the Latins who first came around the world.
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,720
Spain
It is established fact that norsemen were in America long before any other Europeans. And sure Snorri may not have a birth certificate, but according to the very same "source" you used when talking about first whites born in America (wikipedia), it lists Snorri Thorfinnsson right there under "Americas". So, if we want to bring out the better sources, we both need to. However, it is established fact that Norsemen were in America much before any other Europeans. What do you think Leif Erikson day is about? Archaelogists in the 60s even discovered real physical evidence of Nordic settlements confirming this. And again, I am not stating that Norsemen were more influential than Spaniards, I am just stating that Norsemen not only discovered America before other Europeans, but also gave birth in America before other Europeans. I gave my sources, now lets see yours. I doubtb Martin de Arguelles has a birth certificate either.

Coming to America: Who Was First? : NPR
Tom21,

Yes, Martin de Arguelles had a birth certificate. The Empire was too much burocratic. You can find his reports in Lowery Florida MSS, vol. 5; Library of Congress; It is a collection of Spanish documents in Florida.

I would appreciate if you can write a primary source about the nordic... one official report in one collection...

Original from San Agustín, Florida. Mixed marriage certificate, Spanish and India. From 1584.




Where is the Nordic Certificate? You are comparing the Spanish Empire in North America and the Nordic? Where are your original evidences?
 
Mar 2017
130
US
Tom21,

Yes, Martin de Arguelles had a birth certificate. The Empire was too much burocratic. You can find his reports in Lowery Florida MSS, vol. 5; Library of Congress; It is a collection of Spanish documents in Florida.

I would appreciate if you can write a primary source about the nordic... one official report in one collection...

Original from San Agustín, Florida. Mixed marriage certificate, Spanish and India. From 1584.




Where is the Nordic Certificate? You are comparing the Spanish Empire in North America and the Nordic? Where are your original evidences?
Ive given sources. I gave you a solid one for Nordic discovery. As for Snorri Thorfinnsson, I dont have a birth certifcate of an ancient birth, but everywhere I have looked, it says he is thought of as the first European birth in America. Is there more evidence of Martin de Arguelles? Sure there is. But you cant change whats already well established. Wikipedia shows this, the sources I gave you show this...

Spanish influence in the Americas/North America is a million times more than Nordic, all I wanted to do was show that Norsemen were before Christopher Columbus, and provide that Snorri Thorfinnsson is thought of as being before Martin de Arguelles.
 
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LatinoEuropa

Ad Honorem
Oct 2015
5,222
Matosinhos Portugal
My noting of the "first white child" was only continuing the topic that I did not start. It was part of my reply to Martin. As for the Nordic influence, discovering America for one.
Coming to America: Who Was First? : NPR

It lists Irish monks as a possible theory for having come before Vikings, but it also does note in the article that it is only a legend. It then continues on to say that Vikings settling America is established fact. This would mean that, as far as we know, Vikings actually did discover America first (by way of physical evidence and compared to all other contenders)
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Friend tom 21 if you are an American citizen of English language.
Can thank the Latin peoples of the Iberian peninsula, it was the Latins to teach the rest of the world to sail, and with these navigations other countries of Europe sacked Spain and Portugal, I give you an example south America speak 3 European languages ​​that should only speak Two languages ​​Portuguese and Spanish only speak one more language because of the service they have done to the Spaniards and the Portuguese.
And you have the example, as I tell you the other canada who speak two European languages ​​should only speak Portuguese as North America should speak only the Castilian, what it takes is to assume the reality of history, that some here do not accept it , Many ask me this question, in portugal they only speak Portuguese 11 million and in brazil they speak Portuguese 220 million, I will give you my answer with all the Brazilian people, because the Brazilian nation was built with the help of the immigration of many countries of the continents Europe africa asia etc. It's the same with the United States of America.Without offense, when it comes to portugal american and canada tourists.
I am glad, but my first thought is that you have these nationalities that I respect, but do not forget that you have a lot to thank portugal and spain.
I know that some of my answers can not please, but friends hate on my part does not exist what exists is the truth of the story that many do not know to accept, in all North American families have their forebears who are Asian African Europeans as well as South America.
We must accept the truth about universal history.
 
Mar 2017
130
US
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Friend tom 21 if you are an American citizen of English language.
Can thank the Latin peoples of the Iberian peninsula, it was the Latins to teach the rest of the world to sail, and with these navigations other countries of Europe sacked Spain and Portugal, I give you an example south America speak 3 European languages ​​that should only speak Two languages ​​Portuguese and Spanish only speak one more language because of the service they have done to the Spaniards and the Portuguese.
And you have the example, as I tell you the other canada who speak two European languages ​​should only speak Portuguese as North America should speak only the Castilian, what it takes is to assume the reality of history, that some here do not accept it , Many ask me this question, in portugal they only speak Portuguese 11 million and in brazil they speak Portuguese 220 million, I will give you my answer with all the Brazilian people, because the Brazilian nation was built with the help of the immigration of many countries of the continents Europe africa asia etc. It's the same with the United States of America.Without offense, when it comes to portugal american and canada tourists.
I am glad, but my first thought is that you have these nationalities that I respect, but do not forget that you have a lot to thank portugal and spain.
I know that some of my answers can not please, but friends hate on my part does not exist what exists is the truth of the story that many do not know to accept, in all North American families have their forebears who are Asian African Europeans as well as South America.
We must accept the truth about universal history.
Again, I am not attempting to understate Spain or Portugal's influence. I was only challenging an extremely biased misleading statement(s) from Martin.
 

LatinoEuropa

Ad Honorem
Oct 2015
5,222
Matosinhos Portugal
I concur with this. I also wish to state - what are the difference views about history - are they more than propaganda?
Wrong, if I think like you, then I say when the Romans took over the Iberian peninsula, I consider it propaganda.
I do not think so if he thinks-if he was wrong.

Portuguese dictation.

(Knowledge takes no place, but stupidity occupies place)

(o saber não ocupa lugar,mas a estupidez ocupa lugar)
 

Kevinmeath

Ad Honoris
May 2011
14,063
Navan, Ireland
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Friend tom 21 if you are an American citizen of English language.
Can thank the Latin peoples of the Iberian peninsula, it was the Latins to teach the rest of the world to sail, and with these navigations other countries of Europe sacked Spain and Portugal,..........................................
Sorry how does this prove that Scandinavian people did not sail to North America and establish settlements?

Are you claiming they were incapable of sailing to North America?
 

LatinoEuropa

Ad Honorem
Oct 2015
5,222
Matosinhos Portugal
Sorry how does this prove that Scandinavian people did not sail to North America and establish settlements?

Are you claiming they were incapable of sailing to North America?

I do not say the opposite but I ask, the vikings did not have capacity, to dominate the north of america were the Latins, if I say that the Vikings had little population to dominate the North America I agree with you, as happened with portugal had little population demos The name to the canada new land and we bring the bacalhãáu as also portugal did not have enough population to take care of australia as well as to take care of south africa. Friend in 1527 already portugal had brazil and the population of portugal on this date 1million 362 thousand people, now you imagine if portugal had 3 million population at that time, much did my country with the few population that had.
My country friend about the history of the discoveries is not the super man.
I liked that there was more respect with the history of my country and even with the history of Spain, I'm not giving crayons to martin or think about it, because our countries have a great story about the battles they had between the two countries Centuries, I am in favor of history yes the Vikings arrived first in America I ask why they did not dominate America ???