The REAL First Settlement in North America Debate

Sep 2012
1,152
Tarkington, Texas
You don't have to dominate a whole continent to plant a colony on it. While the Portuguese did some good work sailing around Africa and finding Brazil, the fishermen from Scandinavia and the British Isles had been fishing the Grand Banks for a long time.

Pruitt
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,040
Portugal
This threads seems quite messy in what could be a simple theme.

Tulius,

I can accept your theory and I agree with you. So Nordic don´t discover anything. If tomorrow we find a phoenican ship in America.. it doesn´t mean Phoenica discovered America.
[…]
The knowledge of the Norsemen seems to have been lost and only “recently” rediscovered by the Academia when reanalyzing the Sagas, but as I stated before, it seems that they didn’t leaved much traces behind, and even that the number of voyages was quite limited.

As for others (re)discoveries, or voyages by shipwrecks to America they are all speculative, and surely, if they ever existed, none seemed to left much traces or influence behind, so technically if they existed they are more curiosities than historical phenomena:

http://historum.com/speculative-history/127765-america-first-human-migrations-pre-colombian-re-discoveries.html

Discovery Could Rewrite History of Vikings in New World

An article (shocking Nordic propaganda out to discredit the might of Spain I am sure) outlining that a second 'Viking' settlement has found in Canada. the other we have known about since the 1960's.

Of course Greenland was also settled.
Those National Geographic titles and videos have always stunning speculative titles. Better to look for an academic source, or read the Sagas!

https://books.google.pt/books?id=mkTKZMwm2YsC&printsec=frontcover&hl=pt-PT#v=onepage&q&f=false

Here is online for free, but I don’t know how faithfull is the translation, is from a 1902 book by Jennie Hall:

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/24811/24811-h/24811-h.htm#Page_174

You don't have to dominate a whole continent to plant a colony on it. While the Portuguese did some good work sailing around Africa and finding Brazil, the fishermen from Scandinavia and the British Isles had been fishing the Grand Banks for a long time.

Pruitt
Portuguese, Basque, and Britons were also fishing in the Labrador coast since quite early, yet we don’t any kind of evidence that they reached land before 1492.
 
Sep 2012
1,152
Tarkington, Texas
Portuguese, Basque, and Britons were also fishing in the Labrador coast since quite early, yet we don’t any kind of evidence that they reached land before 1492.
Actually all these Fishermen had to land and spread their catch out to dry on St Pierre, Miquelon and perhaps Sable Island. These are all part of North America. Expecting Fishermen to advertise a good fishing ground will never work!

Pruitt
 

LatinoEuropa

Ad Honorem
Oct 2015
5,222
Matosinhos Portugal
I'm curious the name labrador is Portuguese or Basque, or it was given this name by Christopher Columbus.
is a question
 

Kevinmeath

Ad Honoris
May 2011
14,063
Navan, Ireland
I do not say the opposite but I ask, the vikings did not have capacity, to dominate the north of america were the Latins, ...........................
................, I am in favor of history yes the Vikings arrived first in America I ask why they did not dominate America ???

That is not what was claimed , no one claims that the Vikings dominated North America but what was claimed is that they were never there which is simply nonsense.
 

LatinoEuropa

Ad Honorem
Oct 2015
5,222
Matosinhos Portugal
You don't have to dominate a whole continent to plant a colony on it. While the Portuguese did some good work sailing around Africa and finding Brazil, the fishermen from Scandinavia and the British Isles had been fishing the Grand Banks for a long time.

Pruitt


In 1353 the Portuguese in North America to fish the codfish bacalháu the vikings knew friend new land is Portuguese name tierra nueva is in Spanish.
 
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Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,040
Portugal
Actually all these Fishermen had to land and spread their catch out to dry on St Pierre, Miquelon and perhaps Sable Island. These are all part of North America. Expecting Fishermen to advertise a good fishing ground will never work!

Pruitt
Pruitt,

We can speculate that all these Fishermen had to land in one island of the American Continent. But do we have any evidence? Archaeological or a written source or…?

If we don’t have evidence… we can’t say that they visited those isles.
 
Mar 2017
130
US
Vikings

This is from the Smithsonian Institution website:

"But in 1960, undeniable proof of Vikings in North America came to light at L’Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland, Canada. Several Norse Viking pieces and clear Icelandic- style house foundations gave proof positive that Vikings had indeed landed, and briefly settled, in North America 500 years before Columbus."

Archaeologists Spy New Viking Settlement From Space | Smart News | Smithsonian

This one is from Smithsonian Magazine:

"More than a thousand years ago, a group of Vikings became the first European explorers to settle North America. It wasn't until the 1960's when archaeologists discovered the remains of this Viking colony in northern Newfoundland."
 
Jun 2017
422
USA
Cathaginians talked about having settlements in what seems to be america. So did egypt. I don't think any of it is new. I am sure it's much harder to maintain a colony back then though.
 

MAGolding

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,975
Chalfont, Pennsylvania
Jamestown Virginia is the first permanent English settlement in North America and it is the only one we need to know because from this small settlement that began on the 14th of May 1607. we have founded the greatest portion of this earth that man has ever known.

From simple beginnings we have saved the world from 2 World Wars and numerous financial and political battles. Jamestown is indeed the greatest of all European settlements in the New World.

This settlement is responsible for two things. It is responsible for the founding of the greatest nation in the history of the world; the United Sttes of America and it is responsible for the true beginnings of the English, you notice I do not say British, empire.

For the United States of America we only need to remember Jamestown. Jamestown, Virginia is the heart and soul of the United States.

From this small settlement bleeds the essence that is the American spirit.

There are others that did come before Jamestown but none that are more important. Jamestown is the foundation of the way of life that North Americans enjoy every day in their lives.
In 1630 there were many thousands of European settlers and their descendants in North America south of the Rio Grande. But north of the Rio Grande there were probably less than 2,000 European settlers. There were a few hundred each of Spanish in Florida and Ne Mexico, Swedish in New Sweden, Dutch and others in New Netherlands, French in Canada, and English in Virginia and Plymouth Plantation.

Then came the foundation of Massachussetts Bay Colony and the beginning of the Great Migration of Puritans there in 1630. By 1640 there were ten or twenty thousand Puritans in New England and it was pretty much inevitable that English would become the dominant language in North America north of the Rio Grande.

So when it comes to making the future United States of America, everything before the Great Migration of the Puritans was pretty much wasted effort. San Augustine, Santa Fe, Roanoke, Plymouth Plantation, Quebec, Jamestown, etc. were all minor preliminaries to the big story beginning in the 1630.