The REAL First Settlement in North America Debate

royal744

Ad Honoris
Jul 2013
10,654
San Antonio, Tx
Cathaginians talked about having settlements in what seems to be america. So did egypt. I don't think any of it is new. I am sure it's much harder to maintain a colony back then though.
Maybe you could quote some learned texts in proof of this assertion.
 

royal744

Ad Honoris
Jul 2013
10,654
San Antonio, Tx
The Greenland colony had a population of hundreds or thousands for several centuries. And Greenland seems to be as much a part of the North American continent as Newfoundland. If you discount Greenland as part of North America why count Newfoundland as a North American settlement at all?

I say that Lief Ericksson was not the first leader of a European settlement in North America. His father Eric the Red was.

Martin76 wrote:



And the Greenland settlements in North america were well known in Europe.
I’d say that if a Phoenician shipwreck was discovered in North America, that the Phoenician’s were the first to discover America. Simple as that. But it hasn’t happened, has it? What we do know, is that the Norsemen were here first. There’s no need for Spanish or Portugese commentators to be butthurt over this because it were their discoveries and colonial efforts that got the contemporary world going.
 
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royal744

Ad Honoris
Jul 2013
10,654
San Antonio, Tx
Aren’t most of that Spanish speakers a quite recent migration with no direct relation to the 19th century Spanish speakers already there?
Correct. Many work in the urniture factories of west Michigan and a goodly number also own farms.
 

royal744

Ad Honoris
Jul 2013
10,654
San Antonio, Tx
Jamestown was the first permanent and successful colony in North American. Let no one be disillusional about that. The Massachusetts Bay Colony is just a pretender because their original destination was Virginia.
Oh, good Lord!
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,646
Spain
Jamestown is the first "English" permanent settlement in North America, everyone knows that Spanish settlements like St. Augustine in Florida and Spanish colonies in Mexico are older. When people say Jamestown was the oldest, they often sloppily leave off the qualifying statement "English", it usually being understood in the context. Since English settlement would largely influence the future settlement of the US, and Canada, that makes Jamestown importance.
Right Mr Dale... and not only San Agustín in Florida... Santa Fe is as old as Jamestown (1607). San Agustín was founded on Sept. 8, 1565.

Santa Fé was founded in 1607 and holds the distinction of being the oldest state capital in the U.S

So the "clasification" as a F-1 race is:

1st: San Agustín
2nd: Santa Fé and Jamestown
4th: Hampton
 
May 2019
203
Earth
Tenochtitlan was founded in the 14th century, so older than anything mentioned in the op anyway.

Unless the op is only asking about European settlements?
 

LatinoEuropa

Ad Honorem
Oct 2015
5,222
Matosinhos Portugal
Portugal had no settlement North America.
To obtain treaty of Tordesilhas, nevertheless the Portuguese arrived North America first than Columbus.

Portugal não teve assentamento norte América.
Para comprir o Tratado de Tordesilhas,mesmo assim os portuguêses chegaram América do Norte primeiro do que Colombo.



João Vaz Corte-Real - Wikipedia 1473 Terra Nova Canadá
 
Sep 2012
1,109
Tarkington, Texas
Weren't there cities around the Lake when Tenochtitlan was founded? I imagine some cities in the Andes were also ancient.

Pruitt
 
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Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,912
Portugal
I’d say that if a Phoenician shipwreck was discovered in North America, that the Phoenician’s were the first to discover America. Simple as that. But it hasn’t happened, has it? What we do know, is that the Norsemen were here first. There’s no need for Spanish or Portugese commentators to be butthurt over this because it were their discoveries and colonial efforts that got the contemporary world going.
No Portuguese “butthurt” here. The first to discover America were the one that came from Siberia. The Norse discovered and lost it. Other pre-Columbian voyages may had happen but they didn’t had any impact in the history, so we say that Columbus discovered it (for the Europeans). He established the link.

If by any chance we will find that pre-Columbian voyages existed, I doubt that we will have to revaluate much, since they were sporadically or lost (like the ones of the Norse). If we find a Phoenician, Roman, Portuguese or other shipwreck or material evidence it will not add much. A Portuguese pre-Columbian material evidence may only give a wider explanation of the reasons that the Portuguese king D. João II didn’t accepted Columbus plan.

Tenochtitlan was founded in the 14th century, so older than anything mentioned in the op anyway.

Unless the op is only asking about European settlements?
Weren't there cities around the Lake when Tenochtitlan was founded? I imagine some cities in the Andes were also ancient.
I think that the OP was talking about post-Colombian Europeans. As for pre-Columbian cities, it is out of my area, but I think that the Olmec cities predate the cities around the Lake Texcoco.