The REAL First Settlement in North America Debate

Kotromanic

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
5,089
Iowa USA
@martin76, it appears that if one agreed to put Saint Augustine aside out of high personal regard for pikeshot1600's opinion, then this conquistador, de Onate, established a settlement approximately eight years before Jamestown within the 1848 USA borders.
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,940
Spain
@martin76, it appears that if one agreed to put Saint Augustine aside out of high personal regard for pikeshot1600's opinion, then this conquistador, de Onate, established a settlement approximately eight years before Jamestown within the 1848 USA borders.
Exactly... Spain was the first European country to discover, explore, take possession, establish settlements, churches and records in the territory that is USA today. And very fast.. Whilst British never arrived to Kansas, Spaniards arrived to Nebraska, Kansas, Colorado, Kentucky, Tennessee or Iowa in 50 years!!!
I know what today is USA came from the small English (later) British colonies in Northeastern America... what´s unacceptable (in a History Forum, not in a bar for hooligans) it is to manipulate the history and writing barbarities as Jamestown is the older European settlement in America or a English Girl was the first European born in North America etc etc.
As False as to say, Overlord and D-Day was commanded, organized and made possible by the Soviet Union... Exactly the same. I can prove who were the old settlements in North America, the old european people bornt in North America, etc etc etc.. English-British arrived 100 years later than Spaniards.. so it is hard difficult they were the first to stablish settlement in North America mostly when 70% the land today are the USA, never they were under British Control. (From Texas to Alaska, California, Idaho, Kansas, Colorado, Iowa, Nuevo México, Nevada, Oklahoma etc etc etc) and when some of the area belonged to British Empire was only for a short time (for example Georgia). USA didn´t come from Jamestown but from the American rebellion (supported by France and Spain) and the American way of life don´t come from Jamestown but from Industrialization, the mass inmigration, the fact USA don´t know what is a war in their soil from 1865, the Suicide of Europe and the economic Splendor... nothing matched with Jamestown (pure propaganda). It´s been more decisive the Northern victory in 1865 than Jamestown... A Confederate Victory means not american way of life... and today, North States would have been a kind of New Zealand and the Southi States a kind of Jamaica.

So, No, who say Jamestown is the old stablishment in North America.. he is or an ignorant, or a phohy or a manipulator. Jamestown IS NOT the old stablishment in North America.
Regards.
 
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Kotromanic

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
5,089
Iowa USA
@martin76, it appears that if one agreed to put Saint Augustine aside out of high personal regard for pikeshot1600's opinion, then this conquistador, de Onate, established a settlement approximately eight years before Jamestown within the 1848 USA borders.

"I want to go on the record": there was no irony intended in the comment about Saint Augustine. I have a high regard for the quality of pike's contributions; so the remark to martin was to point out that Jamestown does not hold second place to Saint Augustine, rather the settlement on the upper Rio Grande river does.
 
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macon

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
4,198
Slovenia, EU
This settlement is responsible for two things. It is responsible for the founding of the greatest nation in the history of the world; the United Sttes of America and it is responsible for the true beginnings of the English, you notice I do not say British, empire.
Please relax with the greatest nation in the history of the world because little children can laugh on you.
 
Apr 2015
281
USA
So I am reading America's Assignment With Destiny and the author, Manley P. Hall, claims that Jamestown was the first permanent settlement in North America. I immediately knew that this was not true. I know the first settlement was La Isabella which is now Haiti but I was in question if this was the first PERMANENT settlement. After 3 years though 1493-1496, hurricanes destroyed everything and all was moved to Santo Domingo which has been colonized ever since. So the question is can La Isabella be considered the first permanent settlement? It was intended to be and the settlers couldn't help there were hurricanes, yet Santo Domingo HAS been colonized ever since 1496.
Perhaps he meant to say the first ENGLISH settlement
 

MAGolding

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
3,028
Chalfont, Pennsylvania
Jamestown Virginia is the first permanent English settlement in North America and it is the only one we need to know because from this small settlement that began on the 14th of May 1607. we have founded the greatest portion of this earth that man has ever known.

From simple beginnings we have saved the world from 2 World Wars and numerous financial and political battles. Jamestown is indeed the greatest of all European settlements in the New World.

This settlement is responsible for two things. It is responsible for the founding of the greatest nation in the history of the world; the United Sttes of America and it is responsible for the true beginnings of the English, you notice I do not say British, empire.

For the United States of America we only need to remember Jamestown. Jamestown, Virginia is the heart and soul of the United States.

From this small settlement bleeds the essence that is the American spirit.

There are others that did come before Jamestown but none that are more important. Jamestown is the foundation of the way of life that North Americans enjoy every day in their lives.
You are wrong, Previous settlement in North America north of the Rio Grande was very small until the Great Migration of Puritans and others to New England in 1630-1640. The population of New England soon became several times as large as all other English, Spanish, French, Dutch, etc. setters in North America north of the Rio Grande. That was the most decisive moment in the settlement of North America north of Mexico.

And of course the even later and more massive immigration of English, Germans, etc. to Pennsylvania meant that American society would be far better than either the Puritan or the Virginia culture would have been. That was what made America great.
 
Dec 2014
350
Italy
Jamestown ... St. Augustine ...

The truth is ... books are different sources ... A writer writes it's Jamestown ... another writes St. Augustine ... Years elapse ... new research ...new discoveries ... So ... what will be the the "first settlement" in 2050? ... At that time ... there will be another historian or archeologist who will say: "The first American settlement aren't Jamestown or St. Augustine ... but ... according to new excavations ... it's Tallahassee ... Florida"

Of course, Tallahassee is only an example ... to express an idea.

I grew up with ... Jamestown as the "first settlement" ... In recent years only I read there was also St. Augustine.

Meanwhile ... books are sold.
 
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Dec 2012
1,130
Savannah, GA
Jamestown ... St. Augustine ...

The truth is ... books are different sources ... A writer writes it's Jamestown ... another writes St. Augustine ... Years elapse ... new research ...new discoveries ... So ... what will be the the "first settlement" in 2050? ... At that time ... there will be another historian or archeologist who will say: "The first American settlement aren't Jamestown or St. Augustine ... but ... according to new excavations ... it's Tallahassee ... Florida"

Of course, Tallahassee is only an example ... to express an idea.

I grew up with ... Jamestown as the "first settlement" ... In recent years only I read there was also St. Augustine.

Meanwhile ... books are sold.
St. Augustine is not something that has been excavated out of the ground. The fact that you haven't read about it doesn't mean that it wasn't widely known to be the first settlement in the United States.

But my problem with this post is grammatical. When you overuse ellipses (...) they completely lose their power of effect.
 
Dec 2014
350
Italy
St. Augustine is not something that has been excavated out of the ground. The fact that you haven't read about it doesn't mean that it wasn't widely known to be the first settlement in the United States.

But my problem with this post is grammatical. When you overuse ellipses (...) they completely lose their power of effect.
Well, mine was only an example "chronologically speaking": St. Augustine, 1565; Jamestown, 1607. Some forumites are fighting here. One says: "The first settlement is St. Augustine". Another get angry and replies: "No! It's Jamestown!". :)

So, I wanted to say books are different, like authors. Thus, sources are different. One historian say the "first settlement is St. Augustine"; another writes it's Jamestown; in the future: who knows? Everthing according to new discoveries. Have I managed to explain myself now?

About the grammar, you call them "ellipses". We call them "three little points" or "little points of suspension". Yes, you are right: I have overused them; I realized it. For us, "ellipses" are a "long pause". From now on, I will not use them no more; it's a promise (if I manage to keep it; I have to take breath). :)