The real problem with the Electoral College.

Aug 2015
1,951
Los Angeles
But why do so many of us seemingly espouse the idea that the founding fathers were somehow infallible?
1. The Founding Fathers weren't infallible. But rather, we understand this country was formed through not just consensus but also compromise. The Founding Fathers find the idea of a man been 3/5 distasteful? Perhaps. But the southern states would probably prefer a man of certain color would count as a full person in relations to representation but gave him no agency while northern states would claim that all man were created equal but deny that man to be 1/1 of a person. The compromise? 3/5.


It’s as if the early United States was a holy, pure garden of eden; that the constitution was created by god himself, that it’s a objectively perfect document. That any further deviation from what these guys had planned is automatically bad/evil/negative/corrupt.
Why don't you save your grand speech when you have the podium? Don't project your childish theory on to me.

It seems like religious dogma to want to hold on so tightly to what the “founding fathers thought was right,” at the expense of critical thinking and being open minded.
Hum. So what is this 'open minded' idea you have?

Would you reduce the interest of the inner states to nothing? Because we both know FULL WELL that the population will always favor one party over the other.
 

Menshevik

Ad Honorem
Dec 2012
9,355
here
1. The Founding Fathers weren't infallible. But rather, we understand this country was formed through not just consensus but also compromise. The Founding Fathers find the idea of a man been 3/5 distasteful? Perhaps. But the southern states would probably prefer a man of certain color would count as a full person in relations to representation but gave him no agency while northern states would claim that all man were created equal but deny that man to be 1/1 of a person. The compromise? 3/5.




Why don't you save your grand speech when you have the podium? Don't project your childish theory on to me.



Hum. So what is this 'open minded' idea you have?

Would you reduce the interest of the inner states to nothing? Because we both know FULL WELL that the population will always favor one party over the other.
What theory is childish?

And you’re putting words in my mouth, I never claimed that I had any specific ideas or legislation I wanted enacted.
 
Aug 2015
1,951
Los Angeles
What theory is childish?

And you’re putting words in my mouth, I never claimed that I had any specific ideas or legislation I wanted enacted.
Let me get this straight, you were lecturing me on my supposed belief that 'founding fathers were somehow infallible ' and my supposed belief that 'It’s as if the early United States was a holy, pure garden of eden; that the constitution was created by god himself, that it’s a objectively perfect document. That any further deviation from what these guys had planned is automatically bad/evil/negative/corrupt'


Because I said as a nation this country is founded on compromise and consensus?

And you preach about "at the expense of critical thinking and being open minded" is just an abstract idea of 'open mindness'?

Did I get that right?

You made a bunch of assumptions, then said 'well that's dogma' because, well, it has to be?

Oh boy.
 
May 2019
202
Salt Lake City, Utah
And that is an opinion you are allowed to have.
As you do as well, so obviously demonstrated above. And the push for changing or limiting the EC is so easily defended, too. And that opinion, imo, is growing by leaps and bounds, which in terms of one person one vote is so sensible.
 

Menshevik

Ad Honorem
Dec 2012
9,355
here
Let me get this straight, you were lecturing me on my supposed belief that 'founding fathers were somehow infallible ' and my supposed belief that 'It’s as if the early United States was a holy, pure garden of eden; that the constitution was created by god himself, that it’s a objectively perfect document. That any further deviation from what these guys had planned is automatically bad/evil/negative/corrupt'


Because I said as a nation this country is founded on compromise and consensus?

And you preach about "at the expense of critical thinking and being open minded" is just an abstract idea of 'open mindness'?

Did I get that right?

You made a bunch of assumptions, then said 'well that's dogma' because, well, it has to be?

Oh boy.
Huh? I think you’re misunderstanding or misreading something.
 
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Cepheus

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
2,332
It’s just a disgrace. The Electoral College ensures that a vote in California is worth much less than a vote in North Dakota. There is nothing fair or just about this. Eliminate the Electoral College tomorrow morning!
To use terms like disgrace is relative. The EC is functioning as it was designed.

It is fair on the grounds that the smaller states required some attempt at parity to entice their subscriptions to the union.

If it was really as unfair as you say it would seem that an amendment to change would be forthcoming. Right ?
 

Cepheus

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
2,332
The EC now undermines American understanding of one-person one-ballot.
Posturing.

The "American understanding" is the Federal standard.

Direct democracy is a concept that the founding fathers were diametrically opposed to.

It is just history.
 

Cepheus

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
2,332
The US has a two-party system but its system lacks efficiency due to the various checks and balances that it has.
Correct.

The federalist model was designed to make it hard to change the status quo. The checks and balances were specifically designed to accomplish this end.

One could say, that on this "defect" the system has been exceedingly efficient.
 
May 2019
202
Salt Lake City, Utah
The posturing of what the Founders wanted and what 'federalism' means really does not comport in the modern age.

Whenever the NPV passes, the EC will become unimportant.