The Umayyads conquer Constantinople in 717

Sep 2012
3,847
Bulgaria
#21
The ummayyads cared more about money and commerce than they did for religious fanaticism. They would probably make the jewel of the world, Constantinople, their capital. When the Abbasid revolt did occur, the empire would probably split along the Roman and Persian lines rather than the abbassids being as successful in overtaking the entire empire except Spain. I could see the ummayads being more tolerant of alcohol use which would end up with a Muslim Russia. I would be surprised if Bulgaria and Hungary also didn’t become Muslim as well. So christemdom May be kept to the empire of Charlemagne borders and the British isles.

I see the ummayads seeing themselves as successors of the Roman Empire as controlling the east capital, Africa, and Spain, so they may seek to reunify the Roman Empire under the banner of the green moon. The dark age may be seen associated with Christianity and that religion may fade. Or since Islam still isn’t viewed as an entirely different faith, they would view Islam as the right path chosen by the Abrahamic god.
What Hungary do you have in mind sparticulous? During the second siege the ancestors of Arpad were still in or near what is today Ukraine and Pannonia at the time was ruled by the Avars / a century or so until the dissolution of the Avar Khaganate.
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,098
Republika Srpska
#22
Also, while it is possible that Kievan Rus might convert to Islam, it would not be because of Muslim tolerance for alcohol. In many ways Vladimir was only confirming what was already happening. Patriarch Photios, who lived in the 9th century, wrote that the Rus have accepted Christianity. Muslim sources also confirm that there were Christians among the Rus. The Russian Primary Chronicle (Повѣсть времѧньныхъ лѣтъ) also claim that some of the Rus that were present at the concluding of the treaty between Igor of Kiev and the Byzantines in 945 were Christians. Of course, it is also clear that Olga, Igor's wife was a Christian. So, we should not see Vladimir's conversion as a radical move but rather a next step in the process that was already underway. He did not choose Christianity because Islam prohibited drinking. And that whole choosing story seems a bit...improbable. It is much more likely that Vladimir chose Christianity because some of his subjects already were Christians and because he wanted to pursue closer ties to Byzantium.
 
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Likes: Ichon
Feb 2014
296
Miami
#23
What Hungary do you have in mind sparticulous? During the second siege the ancestors of Arpad were still in or near what is today Ukraine and Pannonia at the time was ruled by the Avars / a century or so until the dissolution of the Avar Khaganate.
The Hungarians that eventually moved into the Pannonian basin. I would foresee the ummayads adapting to Byzantine beaucracy and diplomacy of dealing with the nomadic hordes.
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,098
Republika Srpska
#24
I don't think the Umayyads would look too kindly to anyone being a Muslim and a non-Arab. They were pretty infamous for their discriminatory treatment of non-Arab Muslims. Sometimes they even forced them to return to their original religion. However, as always, we should be careful when talking about the Umayyad period because many sources date from the Abbasid period and the Abbasids of course had reasons to portray the Umayyads in a bad light.
 
Likes: JoanOfArc007
Nov 2010
7,648
Cornwall
#25
I don't think the Umayyads would look too kindly to anyone being a Muslim and a non-Arab. .
Yes indeed but it did lead to serious conflict in the Magreb and in Al Andalus. Especially with berber clans who tended to me more warlike and capable militarily. The Almohads gave them their discrimination back in great dollops, forcibly moving thousands of arabs from Ifriqiya to closer to Marrakesh and treating them as second class citizens who were also very unrelaiable on the battlefield, compared to the hard Almohad troops.

Any study of the politics and intrigues involved in Arab, Berber societies of Al Andalus and the Magreb in the period is an absolute nightmare which would put any modern novel to shame
 

Ichon

Ad Honorem
Mar 2013
3,618
#26
Umayyads being victorious in Constantinople would likely add lustre to their rule but also compound the problems they faced with non-Muslim Arabs and most likely dissipate some of the other routes of military expansion as they digested Anatolia and came into conflict with Slavs, Avars, and Bulgars. Other than Byzantines the main opponents of Umayyads after 717 were Khazars along with various revolts around the Empire which with Constantinople conquered would likely have increased as Christians under the Umayyads had fewer options. I would guess that without a very skilled ruler emerging (which historically did occur with the just Caliph Aziz) the Umayyads would face even more pressures with taxation and converting to Islam.
 

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