The War of 1812 lasts longer

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,750
SoCal
What would have been the effects had the War of 1812 lasted longer? For instance, does New England actually attempt to secede from the US in this scenario? If so, does Britain actually support New England in its secession attempt? Does British support making New England's attempted secession in this scenario a success?

Also, how would the war have unfolded militarily if it would have continued? At the start of 1815, Andrew Jackson's forces won a huge victory at the Battle of New Orleans. So, I'm wondering what the British would have done in response to this battle had the war continued after that point in time.

Any thoughts on all of this? @Niobe @Kotromanic @Maki @Everyone else
 
Jan 2013
1,087
Toronto, Canada
New England continues to talk about secession, but states governments settle for refusing any further support of the war. Local authorities along the border negotiate an unofficial armistice with British forces to prevent any bloodshed.

Wellington launches a major invasion of New York though the Hudson Valley. In the south, the British decide to focus on capturing Mobile and reigniting the Creek War if possible.
 
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Feb 2019
905
Pennsylvania, US
Hmmm... this is a tough one, because many people feel that for the British, the War of 1812 was just a small theater of the larger Napoleonic Wars happening at the time. In order for the British to be "freed up" a bit more and extend the war (the costs, the men, etc) in America, something would have to give with Napoleon and France. Without knowing the more about the Napoleonic Wars, I can't speculate much about whether there could have been a tide-turning event that might have brought it all to a close 2 years early so that British could be "freed up" to smash America in 1812.

I mean, it was so tentatively "over" between Britain and American in 1815 seeing as after peace negotiations both sides began plotting invasions again, didn't they? I suppose they never acted upon them, but it might have been interesting if they did.

This really is a bit like playing with toy soldiers, @Futurist ... trying to work everything just right so there can be one huge all out war. I don't think it would end well for us - the British army being so professional and all compared to our yokels like William Hull - but it would be fun to "watch". :lol:
 
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redcoat

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
7,902
Stockport Cheshire UK
? At the start of 1815, Andrew Jackson's forces won a huge victory at the Battle of New Orleans. So, I'm wondering what the British would have done in response to this battle had the war continued after that point in time.
The British after the battle decided that the terrain on this flank of New Orleans was too well protected, so they moved further up the coast and captured Fort Bower, with the intention of attacking the town of Mobile and from there attack New Orleans from the landward side.
 

redcoat

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
7,902
Stockport Cheshire UK
I mean, it was so tentatively "over" between Britain and American in 1815 seeing as after peace negotiations both sides began plotting invasions again, didn't they?
Not really. While both sides thought the peace might not last, neither thought restarting it was a good idea.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,750
SoCal
New England continues to talk about secession, but states governments settle for refusing any further support of the war.
This manifests itself in what ways?

Local authorities along the border negotiate an unofficial armistice with British forces to prevent any bloodshed.
Wouldn't that be subordination on the part of these generals, though?

Wellington launches a major invasion of New York though the Hudson Valley. In the south, the British decide to focus on capturing Mobile and reigniting the Creek War if possible.
What happens next?

Hmmm... this is a tough one, because many people feel that for the British, the War of 1812 was just a small theater of the larger Napoleonic Wars happening at the time. In order for the British to be "freed up" a bit more and extend the war (the costs, the men, etc) in America, something would have to give with Napoleon and France. Without knowing the more about the Napoleonic Wars, I can't speculate much about whether there could have been a tide-turning event that might have brought it all to a close 2 years early so that British could be "freed up" to smash America in 1812.
Britain was finished with Napoleon in 1815. So, if the war would have continued, Britain would have been able to send more of its forces to North America.

I mean, it was so tentatively "over" between Britain and American in 1815 seeing as after peace negotiations both sides began plotting invasions again, didn't they? I suppose they never acted upon them, but it might have been interesting if they did.
Contingency plans are often just that, though--just contingency plans.

This really is a bit like playing with toy soldiers, @Futurist ... trying to work everything just right so there can be one huge all out war. I don't think it would end well for us - the British army being so professional and all compared to our yokels like William Hull - but it would be fun to "watch". :lol:
Yeah, it's certainly an interesting scenario.

BTW, I really enjoy playing with toy soldiers in a figurative sense by trying to manipulate various alternate history events to see where exactly better outcomes can be produced. :)
 
Jun 2017
636
maine
does New England actually attempt to secede from the US in this scenario? If so, does Britain actually support New England in its secession attempt? Does British support making New England's attempted secession in this scenario a success
Had it not been for the negative treatment of Massachusetts and Britain toward Maine, Maine's statehood in 1820 might not have come about. Britain occupied and plundered part of Maine but when the District appealed to Massachusetts, the General Court in Boston refused. Boston even refused to lend the federal govt. funds to drive the British out (and Maine was then part of Massachusetts). I doubt that Maine would have seceded; it took a pretty dim view of Britain and of Massachusetts. In those days, Maine was a far wealthier and important area than it is today.
 
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Kotromanic

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
5,038
Iowa USA
What would have been the effects had the War of 1812 lasted longer? For instance, does New England actually attempt to secede from the US in this scenario? If so, does Britain actually support New England in its secession attempt? Does British support making New England's attempted secession in this scenario a success?

Also, how would the war have unfolded militarily if it would have continued? At the start of 1815, Andrew Jackson's forces won a huge victory at the Battle of New Orleans. So, I'm wondering what the British would have done in response to this battle had the war continued after that point in time.

Any thoughts on all of this? @Niobe @Kotromanic @Maki @Everyone else
I'm recused on War of 1812 for a while.

I have a very minority view about the war, I'm less interested in Canadian theater and more interested in the Alabama/Creek front than most other contributors.

I'm pretty skeptical of any enticement to the UK to continue the campaign through summers of '15 and '16.

Now.... if you want to spin a much more complex scenario in which the Peninsular War was concluded much earlier with Spanish-British victory AND you include a Spanish expeditionary force in this revised scenario, then I'll have more to say. I don't see why the UK will continue the fight through summer of '16, especially given the experience of UK Southern strategy of 1779-1781.
 
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redcoat

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
7,902
Stockport Cheshire UK
I'm pretty skeptical of any enticement to the UK to continue the campaign through summers of '15 and '16.
I can't see why they would wish to either, once the US quietly dropped it's maritime demands and Canada was secure there was nothing vital to British interests for them to fight for.
 
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Kotromanic

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
5,038
Iowa USA
I can't see why they would wish to either, once the US quietly dropped it's maritime demands and Canada was secure there was nothing vital to British interests for them to fight for.
The only scenario where UK agrees to a "gambit" to try to reduce the U.S. to a smaller geographic entity than the 1783 settlement will involve the Spanish seeking a buffer around Florida and likely also occupying North of the Red River, or as far as supply from San Antonio would allow? If Spain wants to partially reverse the Louisiana Purchase and if Canada has enough man power to try again for the Hudson Valley, but I'm describing an entirely different war, and essentially--in European theater--things going badly for the French in 1809 rather than at the end of 1812.
 
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