The war of American independence was won mainly by the help of Spain,

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,051
#21
Spain was more successful than France in their wars directly against Britain. Spain retook Florida and Menorca, as well making gains in the midwest and having some success in naval war.

France started covertly financing the rebellion in 1775, as opposed to Spain in 1776. In addition, France sent forces which were instrumental at Yorktown. Spanish aid was important and often overlooked, but not greater than French aid.
 
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betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,051
#22
Not sure I would agree with 'won' perhaps not lost is a better term?
France started financial aid in 1775. Without it, this could have just been another unsuccessful rebellion. The situation was not good in 1776, with Washington's retreat from Long Island and New York City.
 
Feb 2016
4,312
Japan
#23
France was more important, Spanish help was less so... the Dutch also piled in.
Regardless even without this aid Britain had almost no possibility of winning an outright war... the population was too hostile, the distance from GB too far, the continent too large and the army too small. .... Britain’s window for a meaningful victory was very short (probably battle of Long Island) and had closed well before foriegn allies had piled in.... though they also added to the myriad of issues the British faced.
 
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Sep 2014
877
Texas
#24
Spain helped the citizens of the thirteen colonies with money, arms, ammunition, blankets and clothes, and eventually, with direct military assistance. As George Washington himself recognized, without Spain’s help he would not have won the war Spanish aid in Spain’s war of independence was twice the Spanish GDP today.

the Americans used as currency the Real a Ocho (the first international currency in the history, the Dollar Symbol is because of this currency), the Spaniards had captured numerous English fortresses throughout the Missouri, conquered florida, captured the greatest English convoy ever seen and financed totally the battle of Yorktown.

one of the greatest disasters in the history of England, the Action of 9 August 1780, Spain captures a huge English convoy, with 80000 muskets, 1 billion pounds in gold and 1400 English officers who were to reinforce the British in the war of independence.


The Military Campaign of Bernardo de Gálvez
The victories wrought by Bernardo de Gálvez against the English freed the Mississippi and the Gulf of Mexico for the cause of the American independence.
When Bernardo de Gálvez received the order from Charles III to take military action against England in support of American Independence, he planned a strategy that has been subsequently recognized and admired in military circles. In a quick and audacious campaign, he took the English forts of Fort Bute, Baton Rouge, and Fort Panmure de Natchez that protected the banks of the Mississippi. The strategy consisted in liberating and clearing the most important waterways for communication. This enabled them to strategically control the area, which in turn propitiated the final victory of the American independence. The victory of the Battle of Fort Charlotte (February, 1780), which protected the strategic city of Mobile, proved to be decisive in the security of New Orleans, which was at the time, the most important Spanish bastion in the area, and it also enabled the subsequent attack on Pensacola, (March, 1781), the last British enclave in the Gulf of Mexico.

Spain financed the Battle of Yorktown
When the situation was desperate. From New Spain came the money and the French and American armies could feed themselves. However in the history of U. S although Spain the protagonist this has been omitted. Yorktown’s situation seemed the end But the Supplies from New Spain The US corsairs were also helped and protected But it was much more Spain Break English blockade, plus Won decisive battles And The Ladies' money from Havana (Cuba) was the final point, to win the War of Independence of the 13 colonies.
France was already exhausted and with the treasury coffers empty, its navy inferior to the English fleet, without sufficient bases in America, owed the wages to its soldiers and sailors.
George Washington asked the French for money, but they couldn’t give it to him.Their poorly stocked army and their unpaid soldiers began to desert.

Spain paid the French sailors and soldiers, supplied their ships, paid the salaries of the American soldiers and won the battle and the Independence of the United States
And all this time I thought it was France.
 

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,051
#25
France was more important, Spanish help was less so... the Dutch also piled in.
Regardless even without this aid Britain had almost no possibility of winning an outright war... the population was too hostile, the distance from GB too far, the continent too large and the army too small. .... Britain’s window for a meaningful victory was very short (probably battle of Long Island) and had closed well before foriegn allies had piled in.... though they also added to the myriad of issues the British faced.
I agree that the British didn't have much chance to win as things went. Maybe they could have gotten a more favorable peace and kept the deep south, Maine, Long Island and NYC and more of the midwest.

However, without money and weapons from France and Spain, Washington's army would not have been able to fight. Without French aid in 1775, there wouldn't have been much of a war.
 
Jan 2014
44
poio
#26
It is not true and it is simple logic, the Americans were surrounded by Spanish territories, which was easier for their help, Nueva España, Cuba, and the majority of USA today. For France to intervene in the war was a greater effort after the defeat in the war of the 7 years . France helped with 11000 soldiers directly and Spain with 15000 soldiers.


The southern front was also very important because it was the only place where the English could supply and was guarded by the Spanish fleet and American corsairs.
Bernaldo Galvez prevents the concentration of English in Louisiana, conquering several English forts, and taking Baton Rouge and Fort Panmure and blocked the port of New Orleans to prevent the Mississipi of the English.
Then he’ll take Mobila and Pensacola, conquering Florida.
The English desperate for the situation, send a huge fleet to change the situation of the war.
Action of 9 august de 1780, is going to become one of the biggest disasters in British history. Spain with 31 ships and 6 frigates
captured 55 of the 63 British merchant vessels, making it one of the most complete naval captures ever made.The British lost 80,000 muskets, equipment for 40,000 troops, 294 cannons (the normal British troop size during the American Independence War was 40,000 troops), and 3,144 men. The financial impact of the losses were estimated to be around £1,500,000 (£1,000,000 in gold and £500,000 – £600,000 in equipment and ships). The action also helped to derail a secret British diplomatic effort to make peace with Spain. The loss was still bitterly remembered in Great Britain 30 years later, at the height of the Napoleonic Wars.
Spain would take New Providence Island in the Bahamas, and protect Haiti for France, while France helped in Yorktown.



In a letter dated October 4, 1778, General Washington confessed to Morris: "If the Spaniards had united their fleet with that of France and launched hostilities, my doubts would have diminished…" On November 11, 1778, the General wrote to the President of the Continental Congress in Philadelphia: "Today, the English are vastly superior to the French by sea in America, and will remain so in all respects, unless Spain intervenes…


But wars cannot be won without military and financial aid, as I have already mentioned, and the Americans no longer had the British pound to make their transactions.



1776 letter from the Earl of Aranda detailing the aid to the americans


The main currency used by the americans would be the most widely used international currency, the Spanish dollar (El real a ocho). With this currency Spain traded with territories such as China, Japan, the Philippines and America. 70% of international transactions were made with this currency and Spain financed the Americans with this currency





Battle of Yorktown

On the arrival of Admiral De Grasse in Haitian Cape, three letters from General Rochambeau awaited him. In the first, he asked to recruit troops and bring them with him as reinforcements of General Washington’s Continental Army.

The second letter, perhaps the most important of the three—, raised with De Grasse the alarming economic situation of the armies of independence, that neither the effort of Robert Morris —responsible financially for the revolutionaries— had succeeded in solving.There was no money to fund the Yorktown campaign; not even to pay the independence troops .Rochambeau’s letter urged Admiral De Grasse to raise the huge sum of £1 million 200,000 as the only way to defeat the enemy in the village of Yorktown, whose heavily armed troops were under the command of the English general, Lord Cornwallis.

The third and final letter —all dated June 1781—outlined to De Grase the military strategy to follow. Here Rochambeau also expressed his alarm at the financial situation. Here are his own words:
"I must not hide from you, Lord, that the Americans are at the limit of their resources, that Washington does not have half the troops that he calculates to have, and that in my opinion, although he remains silent about it, he has not 6,000 men, nor does the Lord of Lafayette have 1,000 regulars with the militia to defend Virginia..."

George Washington himself wrote in anguish to the financier Morris:

"I must urgently request, if possible, that you provide me with a month’s salary for the detachment under my command. Some of the troops have not been paid for a long time, and on several occasions have shown signs of great discontent (...) I have no doubt that the sweetness of a little hard currency will restore them to their proper character. If the total amount could not be obtained, at least a part of it would be better than nothing..."

But the French coffers were completely empty.
Washington was depressed. He thought it was feasible to print "continental" currency, that is, indigenous currency. But Morris reminded him that without gold backing, it was impossible.


The historian Stephen Bonsal thus summarized the situation:
"When the zero hour of the Revolution arrived, Washington found itself at a great crossroads. The fighting spirit of the troops was close to mutiny, and none of the men of the northern states wanted to be sent south."

The governor of Haiti does not get him anything, he tried it in Santo Domingo and neither, The quantity was too big. it achieves it thanks to Cuba through the agent of the Spaniards Miranda, the right hand of Simón Bolívar.

American historian Lewis (Charles Lee Lewis-"Admiral De Grasse and the American Independence", Annapolis, 1945) refers to Miranda’s key role, virtually unknown:
"The story of Miranda, one of the leading leaders of Latin American independence, is well known. Unfortunately, however, his decisive involvement in collecting the funds required to fund the Yorktown campaign, is one of the least known aspects in the life of this extraordinary man. The simple truth is that Miranda, along with a few Cubans (creoles), were the people who organized the collection of funds requested by Saint-Simon. Although they came from several different sources, the main group was the Havana ladies. They offered their jewels and diamonds—their wealth— to the American cause."

Lewis says, as De Grasse’s biographer, he investigated the archives in France:
The public treasury was helped by individual people, ladies, who even donated their diamonds. Five hours after the arrival of the frigate Aigrette (...) the sum of £1 200,000 was taken on board."

Also historian Harold E. Davis ("The U.S. in History: Historical Development of its People and Meaning", Mexico, 1967) provides a summary of what happened afterwards:
"With that money,(Money of Cuba) the American and French leaders began to face the vast expenses of the southern campaign. The Continental Army, along with much needed French collaboration, successfully fought the British forces of General Cornwallis in Yorktown, Virginia. The French Fleet played an important, perhaps crucial, role in preventing English reinforcements from reaching Cornwallis. After a few days of savage combat, British troops, surrounded by rebels, were forced to surrender. The capitulation of Yorktown was signed on October 31, 1781. From then on, American victory was consolidated, although sporadic fighting continued until 1783. The Treaty of Paris finally established American independence.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,039
SoCal
#28
I agree that the British didn't have much chance to win as things went. Maybe they could have gotten a more favorable peace and kept the deep south, Maine, Long Island and NYC and more of the midwest.

However, without money and weapons from France and Spain, Washington's army would not have been able to fight. Without French aid in 1775, there wouldn't have been much of a war.
Agreed with all of this.

BTW, do we have a map of the front lines during the American Revolutionary War?
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,286
Spain
#29
Of course the Spanish rol was vital... not only because American war arised to a global dimension (French Empire was almost non-existing Empire in 1776). The financial and logistic support (the weapons, ammunition. tents., clothe etc), the risk to support a rebellion (France was risking nothing... not French Dominions in America in 1776... save Martinique and 1/3 in Hispaniola) and the divert of the British resources... Not operations in Europe, Caribbean or Oceania before Spanish intervention...

In fact, if Spain would have declared war on France in 1776.. supporting British Army... simply. not American Revolution at all. Who said here France had more armies in America than Spain or Britain? Who said here French Navy were bigger than the Spanish-British Fleet? If the British-Spanish alliance in 1793 would have been done in 1776...17 years sooner...


Robert Liston understood faster than nobody. An Alliance between Madrid and London neutralized any action from France. But the main problem was that for London... Spain was the "natural enemy" and for Madrid... Britain was "perfidious Albion"... However Robert Liston was right... a Spanish - British alliance in 1776 would have been the end for the American Rebellion... and I guess.. .not USA.... in 2019.

Who knows...
 
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