The Winter War : Whose side are you on?

Whose side would you be on during the Winter War?

  • Finland

    Votes: 28 96.6%
  • The USSR

    Votes: 1 3.4%

  • Total voters
    29

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,827
SoCal
So how does that make Soviet claim legitimate ? Having imperial ambitions doesn't make you claim to certain territory legitimate.
I was using the perspective of national self-determination here. The Soviet-imposed borders appear to have worked out pretty well in the long(er)-run considering that there isn't a massive movement in western Ukraine and western Belarus right now to secede and rejoin Poland. That said, though, Poland should have been allowed to keep both Vilnius and Lviv due to their Polish-majority population before World War II.

We can also nullify any peace treaties out there with such logic. Russia now can also go and say : ,, post-Soviet countries are independent only due to weakness of Gorbachev and they are ours by right. So we will go and conquer them now ''.
They could, though getting mass popular support in favor of a reunion with Russia among the people of these newly conquered territories might be a challenge. Ultimately what matters is whether mass popular support can be acquired for their new order.

Also, Russia (and especially Russian nationalists) doesn't want Central Asia due to the demographic threat that it poses. There are now almost as many young Central Asians as there are young Russians:

Russia Also Needs A Big Beautiful Wall

 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,827
SoCal
I do want to make an additional point here--the annexation of western Ukraine to the USSR in 1939 might have ironically ensured that Ukraine would escape and remain out of the Russian sphere of influence in the long(er)-run. After all, without western Ukraine, there might have been majority support in Ukraine in favor of joining the Eurasian Union and thus something like the Maidan Revolution would have been much harder to pull off.
 
May 2019
125
Northern and Western hemispheres
My thought exactly. The ancient tale of David vs Goliath.

By the way Kubis Gabcik why did you allow 'multiple' votes, heh.
I allowed multiple votes because I thought some Historum users might want to vote for both Finland and the USSR or vote more than once for one side.
 
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Vaeltaja

Ad Honorem
Sep 2012
3,693
I didn't know the Winter War was what caused Finland to join the Axis.
The Finnish 'grand plan' for the WW II prior to the Soviet invasion consisted of staying out from the conflict. Relying on neutrality, especially to the Nordic neutrality, and to the League of Nations. With the Soviet invasion that plan was in tatters. Finns had expected other countries to come to their aid but they didn't. Not openly at least. So shall we say that the Finns were somewhat disillusioned from the actions of the Western Allies. Which lead to post-Winter War situation (also known in Finland as Interim Peace). Despite of the Soviets claiming to having accomplished all they wanted (while it seems that in reality the coming spring thaws and the threat of Allied intervention had forced the Soviets to end their war of aggression) they went on to start demanding changes to Finnish internal politics (demanding dismissals of certain ministers, allowing openly revolutionary group to operate with Soviet sponsorship, censoring candidates out from presidential elections), blackmailing with agreed food shipments, trying to gain control of the mines of Petsamo, preventing Finland from forming any kind of defensive pacts with other Nordic countries, shooting down Finnish passenger aircraft, repeatedly violating Finnish airspace, demanding rights to transit armed troops through Finland, demanding Soviet say on Åland neutrality, demanding border changes to the agreed Winter War border (especially paper factories of Enso)... list goes on.

Then there were the other aspects... Add to this the German capture of Denmark and Norway which practically isolated Finland and Sweden. The demands Molotov made to Hitler as to allow the Soviets free hands in order to take care of the Finnish problem late in 1940. There are some indications that the Soviets actually finally realized the fiasco their foreign politics towards Finland had been. Instead of having bowed Finns had sought German help. The Soviets did try to change their tune early in 1941 but it was too little and too late by then. One crucial aspect was that after the Winter War Finland could no longer grow enough food for its population - it had to trade goods (mainly timber and wood products) for food, fuel, etc. And there were just two potential trading partners, the Soviets and the Nazis. One of them had not invaded, blackmailed, threatened (etc.) Finland.
However the USSR did succeed in annexing about 11% of Finnish territory.
Practically none of the population however. Those living in the ceded areas had a simple choice - to remain and become Soviet citizens or evacuate and become what is in modern times known as internally displaced persons. Practically every one chose to rather to leave than to stay.
 
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