Thoughts on the idea of open borders?

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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,131
SoCal
well, an article said 2 million students of the graduating high school class of 2018 took the SAT. Currently there are 3.6 million people set to graduate in 2019. So around 44% don't take the SAT, including myself who never had to for getting into a college.
Interesting. Were you a strong student?

Also don't let SAT-racial stats or IQ-racial stats clog your head. Those differences are based on historical and sociocultural factors as well as environmental causes that we are still facing repercussions from. Not to mention the idea of using the SATs or IQ as a measure of proper intelligence is outdated to say the least. It's an easy way to make seemingly factual information or out of context information validate dumb racist arguments.
Do you believe that the average IQ gap between US Gentile Whites and US Asians/US Jews is likewise completely environmental?
 
Jun 2013
6,395
USA
Interesting. Were you a strong student?


Do you believe that the average IQ gap between US Gentile Whites and US Asians/US Jews is likewise completely environmental?
1. I was mostly a B student. But not all colleges are super exclusive.

2. Yes it's environmental and cultural. Asian countries have historically had strict educational standards and have historical cultures of families really pushing their children to keep at it. If you failed school, your life was essentially over so to speak. For example in Japan the huge deal is an exam before HIGH SCHOOL, not the entry into college. As those families immigrated elsewhere, many of them still passed down the mentality focusing on education, hence the higher averages. For Jews, they've been historically persecuted and therefore compensated for it by improving their skills and education so they can be secure with a good job just in case there was another pogrom, persecution, or anti-semitic environment to isolate them from more normal available jobs, and that mentality still continues for many traditional Jews because of that. None of this has to do with their race / ethnicity, and to act like it does is pseudo.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,131
SoCal
Not at all, I was just mentioning the idea of a "cultural factor" because it's sometimes claimed to justify Indians and Chinese overachieving in test scores. I'm quite skeptical about the cultural factor since even if each ethnic group has a monolithic culture, not everyone will adhere to it by the letter.

I think this focus on ethnicity to explain SAT results is a little misleading, similar to breaking down the wage earnings of every employee by gender in a large multinational company creating questions about a gender wage gap.
Indians in Britain perform decently but not too well. It's possible that US Indians perform better, though. Anyway, I do think that it's possible that, due to selection, we got a lot of the smartest Indians and Chinese (and perhaps Jews as well). Chinese in China nevertheless perform pretty well on PISA, though.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,131
SoCal
1. I was mostly a B student. But not all colleges are super exclusive.

2. Yes it's environmental and cultural. Asian countries have historically had strict educational standards and have historical cultures of families really pushing their children to keep at it. If you failed school, your life was essentially over so to speak. For example in Japan the huge deal is an exam before HIGH SCHOOL, not the entry into college. As those families immigrated elsewhere, many of them still passed down the mentality focusing on education, hence the higher averages. For Jews, they've been historically persecuted and therefore compensated for it by improving their skills and education so they can be secure with a good job just in case there was another pogrom, persecution, or anti-semitic environment to isolate them from more normal available jobs, and that mentality still continues for many traditional Jews because of that. None of this has to do with their race / ethnicity, and to act like it does is pseudo.
What you write here certainly makes sense, Tiger, but have you ever considered the possibility that the environment of different groups could have influenced the evolution of those groups? For instance, if having a lot of brains was required for Asians and Jews to historically achieve success, is it possible that this environment facilitated evolution among these groups as a result of the smartest members of these groups (possibly) consistently reproducing more than the less smart members of these groups did?

After all, evolution doesn't occur in a vacuum; rather, it occurs in response to the environmental situation. This would be similar to if the US (purely hypothetically) completely abolished its social safety net (and all affirmative action, of course) and thus created a situation of Social Darwinism where only the smartest people could thrive and reproduce a lot. In such a scenario, there would have probably been eugenic fertility in the US as a result of its smartest people consistently reproducing more than its less smart people would--which in turn would result in a US population that would continuously be getting smarter and smarter.
 
Jun 2013
6,395
USA
What you write here certainly makes sense, Tiger, but have you ever considered the possibility that the environment of different groups could have influenced the evolution of those groups? For instance, if having a lot of brains was required for Asians and Jews to historically achieve success, is it possible that this environment facilitated evolution among these groups as a result of the smartest members of these groups (possibly) consistently reproducing more than the less smart members of these groups did?

After all, evolution doesn't occur in a vacuum; rather, it occurs in response to the environmental situation. This would be similar to if the US (purely hypothetically) completely abolished its social safety net (and all affirmative action, of course) and thus created a situation of Social Darwinism where only the smartest people could thrive and reproduce a lot. In such a scenario, there would have probably been eugenic fertility in the US as a result of its smartest people consistently reproducing more than its less smart people would--which in turn would result in a US population that would continuously be getting smarter and smarter.
That evolution wouldn't have changed the brains. Science has known that the brains and inner physical structures of all races have been the same since homo sapiens arrived on the scene. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous. The only changes from the environment are the skin color and facial features, and even then it's never uniform. "Social darwinism" meanwhile is an outdated mentality used to justify racial-based imperialism, not a legitimate theory of evolution. You're delving into rather racist pseudoscience.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,131
SoCal
That evolution wouldn't have changed the brains. Science has known that the brains and inner physical structures of all races have been the same since homo sapiens arrived on the scene. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous. The only changes from the environment are the skin color and facial features, and even then it's never uniform. "Social darwinism" meanwhile is an outdated mentality used to justify racial-based imperialism, not a legitimate theory of evolution. You're delving into rather racist pseudoscience.
Do you think that all individuals are the same as well? For instance, do you think that anyone can become the next Einstein if given enough resources and opportunities?
 
Jun 2013
6,395
USA
Do you think that all individuals are the same as well? For instance, do you think that anyone can become the next Einstein if given enough resources and opportunities?
Of course not all individuals are the same. There are different levels of intelligence whether mentally handicapped to normal to gifted to "Einstein". But it's not determined by race or ethnicity. It's just the fact that all humans individually are different.
 
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Jax

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
6,347
Seattle
We should probably quit with the genetics discussion now though before the mods need to clamp down.

Open borders? I lean towards "Yes"
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,131
SoCal
We should probably quit with the genetics discussion now though before the mods need to clamp down.

Open borders? I lean towards "Yes"
I was explicitly careful not to say anything about genetics here. I know that we're not allowed to talk about genetics on this forum.

I also feel that it might be a good idea for me to disengage from this conversation from now on. I do hope that ET is right, though.
 
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