Thoughts on the idea of open borders?

Status
Closed

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,765
2. Yes it's environmental and cultural. Asian countries have historically had strict educational standards and have historical cultures of families really pushing their children to keep at it. If you failed school, your life was essentially over so to speak. For example in Japan the huge deal is an exam before HIGH SCHOOL, not the entry into college. As those families immigrated elsewhere, many of them still passed down the mentality focusing on education, hence the higher averages. For Jews, they've been historically persecuted and therefore compensated for it by improving their skills and education so they can be secure with a good job just in case there was another pogrom, persecution, or anti-semitic environment to isolate them from more normal available jobs, and that mentality still continues for many traditional Jews because of that. None of this has to do with their race / ethnicity, and to act like it does is pseudo.
"historically" may be a bit optimistic... When did the first universities appear in China/ Japan / Korea ? When was mass education implemented in those countries ?
Its probably a few generations at most.... So it would be hard to talk about historical trend....
Perhaps more relevant is that in rice growing countries people got used to the fact that rice (compared to wheat) needs a lot of hard work....No work, no eat... And its maybe this attitude that got carried over to studies as well...
I recently saw a documentary on the Samsung "boot camp" (integrating young graduates into Samsung)... In Europe we'd probably call it a "forced labor camp"... They are awaken at 5 a.m and driven hard till 11 p.m....

regarding jews I've seen it argued that the Torah and the way it is taught encourages studying and challenging ideas....

What makes Jews so smart?
 
Dec 2011
2,354
I am comfortable with the idea that different populations can differ in innate intelligence, just as they can differ in appearance, but I am not yet convinced it is correct. For example there is the Flynn Effect, which basically shows that IQ increased, for all populations, steadily throughout most of the 20th century (in recent decades there has been an actual measured decline in many Western countries, see Flynn effect - Wikipedia). It has been said that "the average black person now has an IQ higher than that of the contemporary white person's grandfather". The most important cultural factor is, I believe, the level of education, which acts to increase IQ.
Flynn effect - Wikipedia
 
Likes: macon

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
26,878
Italy, Lago Maggiore
I am comfortable with the idea that different populations can differ in innate intelligence, just as they can differ in appearance, but I am not yet convinced it is correct. For example there is the Flynn Effect, which basically shows that IQ increased, for all populations, steadily throughout most of the 20th century (in recent decades there has been an actual measured decline in many Western countries, see Flynn effect - Wikipedia). It has been said that "the average black person now has an IQ higher than that of the contemporary white person's grandfather". The most important cultural factor is, I believe, the level of education, which acts to increase IQ.
Flynn effect - Wikipedia
And the the kind of educational system in relation with the IQ [or SAT] test. An Anglo-Saxon culturally oriented SAT [remember the question about oarsman regatta] will see students integrated in the Anglo-Saxon environment obtaining [statistically] better results than others [I think that this is why that also wealthy black students can obtain not exceptional results : may be they are not that integrated].

About this I could wonder which would be the different between an Italian who grew up in US and an Italian student coming from Milan facing the SAT. My opinion is that the Italian who grew up in US will really probably obtain better results, since nowadays Italians in US [Italian Americans] are wealthy and well integrated in the Anglo-Saxon world.

In a certain way those texts act more as a filter than a selection. For example, being boating a national sport here, financed by schools [so it doesn't cost that much for common families to make children practice it] a common Italian [even of a poor family] could answer correctly to the oarsman regatta problem. And btw, my town wins Olympic medals, like an other town on a near lake [it's a competition!].

A similar reasoning can be made about IQ tests. The most common originated in US and UK, so the cultural background is scientific, technical, mathematical, pragmatic. This means that such an IQ test measures a kind of intelligence, not absolute intelligence. Who is smarter? The one who can apply the equations of Quantum Mechanics or the one who is able to explain Immanuel Kant's thought to you?

The answer, in Anglo-Saxon culture is that the more useful and pragmatic intelligence is to be preferred. Again, it's not a selection of the smartest ones, but a filter among the smartest ones [anyway you have to be very smart to record a very good result in a MENSA IQ test: IQ tests are valid, they are scientifically built and they work, within the limits of their own purposes].

Then a general comment about the last part of this thread [which is going to be closed]: statistical data don't explain reality. We have to analyze what generates those data to understand reality.
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,765
And the the kind of educational system in relation with the IQ [or SAT] test. An Anglo-Saxon culturally oriented SAT [remember the question about oarsman regatta] will see students integrated in the Anglo-Saxon environment obtaining [statistically] better results than others [I think that this is why that also wealthy black students can obtain not exceptional results : may be they are not that integrated].

.
Most IQ tests do have SOME questions that are based on the person knowing things about the "environment" of the country... For example I have seen questions showing 4 versions of the most commonly used postal stamp and asking which one is the right one.. I never could understand what this had to do with intelligence... Obviously someone who never posts letters (or has never posted letters in that particular country) has only 25% chance of answering it correctly... While a postman for example would get it right 100% of the time

I just went online to take an IQ test... took the test , then they asked me for 5 euros to get the results.... Well I am smart enough not to pay those 5 euros so I expect my score is outstanding
 
Status
Closed

Similar History Discussions