Turkey commting assisted economic suicide?

Mar 2016
819
Eindhoven
It seems Turkey drills in the waters east of the island, offshore the occupied part of the island. I think in bloc 24, or 23.

View attachment 21008
The map you linked is the reason why we are drilling. If it was for the mercy of Greeks, we wouldn't have territorial waters at all. If you look at the left edge of the map, you will see that there is no territorial water left to Turkey, even tho there is an entire Asia Minor there. And I have to ask, how the hell can Greece own waters in Mediterranean? Looks unfair to me, but I am not an expert on these issues. If this is legal, all I can say is that this is not fair.

Anyway, I am hoping that we do not avoid any military confrontation.

I also suggest Europeans not to maintain the discussions about Turkey's national interests over Erdogan's name. He will have uniliteral support for protecting drillings sites, including military response. I, myself a long-time Erdogan and Political Islam opposer, would fully support military actions in Eastern Mediterranean.
 

Solidaire

Ad Honorem
Aug 2009
5,743
Athens, Greece
The map you linked is the reason why we are drilling. If it was for the mercy of Greeks, we wouldn't have territorial waters at all. If you look at the left edge of the map, you will see that there is no territorial water left to Turkey, even tho there is an entire Asia Minor there. And I have to ask, how the hell can Greece own waters in Mediterranean? Looks unfair to me, but I am not an expert on these issues. If this is legal, all I can say is that this is not fair.

Anyway, I am hoping that we do not avoid any military confrontation.

I also suggest Europeans not to maintain the discussions about Turkey's national interests over Erdogan's name. He will have uniliteral support for protecting drillings sites, including military response. I, myself a long-time Erdogan and Political Islam opposer, would fully support military actions in Eastern Mediterranean.
You would support a totally unjust cause, refusing to respect and conform to international law. Which is a shame. If you, an educated Turk feel this way, I can only imagine how the less educated ones feel and what havoc nationalism could wreak.

By the way, is this phrase the result of a typo, or do you actually hope that we go to war?
Anyway, I am hoping that we do not avoid any military confrontation.
And to answer you initial question, the reason Greece has so extended territorial waters is because of its islands. According to international law, a coast is a coast, regardless if it belongs to a concrete land mass (such as Asia Minor) or to an island. And the waters between coasts of different states are divided by the median line between them. The particular island that allows Greece to extend its waters that far from its mainland is this: Kastellorizo - Wikipedia

1562101524139.png

This island, Kastellorizo, acts as a wedge, limiting Turkish waters and allowing Greek to connect to Cypriot ones.
1562102700729.png

And thus, Turkish EEZ:
1562103236518.png

Islands are naturally formed land areas surrounded by water on all sides. Islands must be above the water at high tide and able to sustain human habitation or economic life of their own.19 Islands possess the same maritime zones as other landmasses, including a territorial sea, contiguous zone, EEZ, and continental shelf. Islands do not need to be inhabited to create those maritime zones; they only need to be capable of sustaining human habitation or economic life.

Chapter 2: Maritime Zones – Law of the Sea

1562101778480.png

Now why don't you find this fair? What would be fair to you? That Greek islands should be excluded from their rights in surrounding waters? That Turkish rights should extend enveloping inhabited Greek islands? How is that respecting the sovereignty of Greek territory? Why can't you accept that the Aegean is full of islands inhabited by Greeks and belonging to Greece? Greece has not extended its sovereignty to 12 nautical miles, which is its international right, and which Turkey has already done in the Black Sea. Because Turkey has declared that if Greece did so, this would be a cause of war. OK. Now you want us to denounce the sovereign rights of our islands as well? And you would go to war for that?
 
Mar 2016
819
Eindhoven
@Solidaire,

I do not disagree or reject with your points about legality of this case. You may be wrong, but I do not know. Most likely that you are right. Either way, legality doesn't mean just or fair. The unfairness of international law (binding nature of Treaty of Versailles) led to WWII, let me remind you. Can't international law be unfair?

What do I find fair? I do not know but these pictures in West of Eastern Mediterranean does not seem fair to me. This is a personal opinion and has nothing to do with being educated (which I am) or being nationalist (which I am not).

By the way, is this phrase the result of a typo, or do you actually hope that we go to war?
No, this is not a typo. I did not say war, I said military confrontation. I can not comment on Greek Waters in Mediterranean, but the ones in Cyprus also belongs to Turkish Cypriots too. Greek Cypriots are basically parceling the entire sea to various European corps. but no one asks Turkish Cypriots anything. Do you have an alternative plan to protect the rights of Turkish Cypriots? This is not a rhetorical question. You gotta tell me how the rights of Turkish Cypriots are going to be protected. Did Greeks (Cypriots) say that they are going to share the money, and we missed it?
 

Solidaire

Ad Honorem
Aug 2009
5,743
Athens, Greece
@Solidaire,

I do not disagree or reject with your points about legality of this case. You may be wrong, but I do not know. Most likely that you are right. Either way, legality doesn't mean just or fair. The unfairness of international law (binding nature of Treaty of Versailles) led to WWII, let me remind you. Can't international law be unfair?

What do I find fair? I do not know but these pictures in West of Eastern Mediterranean does not seem fair to me. This is a personal opinion and has nothing to do with being educated (which I am) or being nationalist (which I am not).
WWII was not the result of the Treaty of Versailles, but this is not the point of this discussion anyway. International law is the fairest of all possible settlements, in my opinion. What would be better? Laws made by the interests of each nation separately? There would have been no place for peace then, and no international settlements.

By "West Eastern Mediterranean" you probably mean the wedge of Kastellorizo that I described above. It is what it is. A Greek island with its own waters, right across Turkey, influencing the legal status of a large area. Again, one must try to understand that regarding territorial waters and airspace, what matters is the waterfront, the edge of the land that extends sovereignty around it, not how large the land mass behind it is. An island coast is as important as a continental coast. Population and land mass do not count in regards to territorial waters. Only coastline does.

No, this is not a typo. I did not say war, I said military confrontation. I can not comment on Greek Waters in Mediterranean, but the ones in Cyprus also belongs to Turkish Cypriots too. Greek Cypriots are basically parceling the entire sea to various European corps. but no one asks Turkish Cypriots anything. Do you have an alternative plan to protect the rights of Turkish Cypriots? This is not a rhetorical question. You gotta tell me how the rights of Turkish Cypriots are going to be protected. Did Greeks (Cypriots) say that they are going to share the money, and we missed it?
And what would a military confrontation achieve? To show each other how determined we are? People would die, and given the level of nationalism in both our countries, how wouldn't it escalate to a full-blown war? Remember the Imia/Kardak crisis?

Cyprus is an open wound. In my opinion, the two communities should sit down again and discuss how to reunite their island. The wealth of the state of Cyprus would benefit the Turkish Cypriots too, once reunited. Until then, I cannot think of a realistic way to cut them a share of the profits.
 

Dan Howard

Ad Honorem
Aug 2014
5,161
Australia
Now the boofhead has fired the Central Bank governor. He was the only person keeping a lid on inflation and currency freefall. If Erdogan was hoping to find someone who will lower interest rates, he has just done the opposite because foreign lenders will no longer have any confidence in the Central Bank and build that risk into their rate calculations.
 
Mar 2016
819
Eindhoven
T
Now the boofhead has fired the Central Bank governor. He was the only person keeping a lid on inflation and currency freefall. If Erdogan was hoping to find someone who will lower interest rates, he has just done the opposite because foreign lenders will no longer have any confidence in the Central Bank and build that risk into their rate calculations.
This needs to be on purpose. Everyone knows that meddling with Central Bank affairs scares foreign investors, something that Turkey desperately needs.
 
Jul 2016
1,349
Dengie Peninsula
Does this mean that the locals will have to keep taking a wheelbarrow full of TL down to the bakers for a loaf of bread?
 

janusdviveidis

Ad Honorem
Mar 2014
2,026
Lithuania
I remember, that long time ago in Turkey shops often dropped 3 zeroes at the end of the price, it was assumed that everyone understands what price is.
 

Willempie

Ad Honorem
Jul 2015
5,724
Netherlands
Now the boofhead has fired the Central Bank governor. He was the only person keeping a lid on inflation and currency freefall. If Erdogan was hoping to find someone who will lower interest rates, he has just done the opposite because foreign lenders will no longer have any confidence in the Central Bank and build that risk into their rate calculations.
Like my Turkish colleague said: 2 more years of Erdogan and I can use my monthly salary to buy the country.