US recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
2,875
Republika Srpska
There are about 16 Arab countries, are we to wait for all of them to recognise Israel before Israel makes any concessions? In my view, the actual dispute is between Israel and the Palestinians.
I disagree. Dispute between Israel and Palestine is only a reflection of a bigger picture and that is that the Arab world still hasn't accepted the existence of a Jewish state. That has to be solved. Peace can only be achieved that way. Let's say Israel and Palestine make peace and recognize each other and all that. Why would that suddenly stop Syria from wanting the Golan back? Why would that stop Iran from wanting to eliminate Israel? And if the Arab world accepts Israel, it would also weaken extremists on both sides.
 
Dec 2011
2,212
I disagree. Dispute between Israel and Palestine is only a reflection of a bigger picture and that is that the Arab world still hasn't accepted the existence of a Jewish state. That has to be solved. Peace can only be achieved that way. Let's say Israel and Palestine make peace and recognize each other and all that. Why would that suddenly stop Syria from wanting the Golan back? Why would that stop Iran from wanting to eliminate Israel? And if the Arab world accepts Israel, it would also weaken extremists on both sides.
I don't understand this. Suppose Israel and Palestinians did negotiate an agreement between themselves, say that a Palestinian state along the lines that Futurist has suggested here, is recognised. Suppose also that the Gazans stopped firing rockets, Israel lifted the blockade and there were peace talks. If all this happened, would we be saying that none of that should be implemented because, say, Algeria won't recognise Israel AS A JEWISH STATE? Are the Israeli negotiators going to say to the PLO "We are glad to say that we have finally come to an agreement after long negotiations, but we are sorry, it cannot be implemented because Bhutan will not recognise Israel as a jewish state". Yes of course Syria wants the Golan back, but that is a SEPARATE ISSUE. To allow negotitations of this Israeli- Palestine conflict to go forward, we just ignore the Golan (leaving Israel as occupiers) for now and concentrate on the actual issues directly affecting the conflict
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
2,875
Republika Srpska
If all this happened, would we be saying that none of that should be implemented because, say, Algeria won't recognise Israel AS A JEWISH STATE?
Of course not. I merely said that solving the issues between Israel and Palestine would only be solving part of the problem.
 
Dec 2011
2,212
Of course not. I merely said that solving the issues between Israel and Palestine would only be solving part of the problem.
Well you said that "peace can only be achieved that way [the Arab world accepting the existence of Israel]". I think that the actual killing of people in Israel and Palestine can be stopped by agreement with the parties involved. The Arab failure to recognise Israel has few effects, as far as I can see, eg Egypt participates in the Israeli blockade of Gaza, Saudi Arabia has talks with Israel.
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
2,875
Republika Srpska
Well you said that "peace can only be achieved that way [the Arab world accepting the existence of Israel]". I think that the actual killing of people in Israel and Palestine can be stopped by agreement with the parties involved. The Arab failure to recognise Israel has few effects, as far as I can see, eg Egypt participates in the Israeli blockade of Gaza, Saudi Arabia has talks with Israel.
Yes, I stand by what I said. True, lasting peace can only be achieved that way.
 

Menshevik

Ad Honorem
Dec 2012
9,240
here
OTOH, isn't it likely that it will take some "out of the box" thinking to really find a solution here ? There does not seem to be anything "in the box" that has a chance of working.

At this point I don't think there is much to lose in gaming a solution, much like Futurist has been doing this thread. This is what we need to be doing.

Who knows, it may be some strategy that we think is laughable now, but that actually may end up working. Well, at least one can hope.

I think there's a few implications here: (1) That there's a solution out there that can be seen as win-win for all parties involved. I'm not convinced that's the case.

(2) That a solution hasn't already been reached. I think one could argue that the status quo is a situation that has been working reasonably well for the Israelis at least.

As for outside the box thinking, here goes: The Palestinians need to realize and accept that they don't really have any leverage. Beggars can't be choosers. Their plight can only be made more comfortable by them being more passive.
 
May 2015
1,045
The Netherlands
I disagree. Dispute between Israel and Palestine is only a reflection of a bigger picture and that is that the Arab world still hasn't accepted the existence of a Jewish state. That has to be solved. Peace can only be achieved that way. Let's say Israel and Palestine make peace and recognize each other and all that. Why would that suddenly stop Syria from wanting the Golan back? Why would that stop Iran from wanting to eliminate Israel? And if the Arab world accepts Israel, it would also weaken extremists on both sides.
The Arab world, united in the Arab League, has unanimously adopted a peace initiative that proposes normalized relations with Israel in exchange for an end of the occupation and the implementation of the Two State solution for the Israeli-Palestine Conflict. The Arab League has remained committed to this peace intiative since its adoption back in 2002, re-endorsing it once more in 2017, but nearly two decades later it is still waiting for a reponse. Israel and the USA refuse to consider it alltogether.
 
Likes: Futurist

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,748
SoCal
The Arab world, united in the Arab League, has unanimously adopted a peace initiative that proposes normalized relations with Israel in exchange for an end of the occupation and the implementation of the Two State solution for the Israeli-Palestine Conflict. The Arab League has remained committed to this peace intiative since its adoption back in 2002, re-endorsing it once more in 2017, but nearly two decades later it is still waiting for a reponse. Israel and the USA refuse to consider it alltogether.
Israel should adopt this proposal with reservations in regards to the right of return.

Also, for what it's worth, the Arab Peace Initiative only accepted the principle of land swaps since 2013 due to John Kerry's urging.