US 'war on terror' has killed over half a million people in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq

aggienation

Ad Honorem
Jul 2016
9,745
USA
I know the role of other countries in Syria but this thread is about America so i had to bring that up.
No, this thread is about your hatred of America and need to use it as a scapegoat for suffering, while ignoring everyone else involved.
 
Nov 2014
1,654
Birmingham, UK
I could describe every single region in the world by the same manner, especially the highlighted part.
It's strange, that's the kind of phrase you hear quite a lot about the Middle East, as though it's some kind of singularity, as though the rest of the world has been in perpetual peace. I'm surprised to see it on a historical forum though as for me it's a wholly hollow phrase, unless some region of the world can be cited where they have not been 'killing each other since Roman times'
 

aggienation

Ad Honorem
Jul 2016
9,745
USA
I think it's my turn to say what's your point?
Your terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, vice versa. I think Al Qaeda/Nusra and ISIS are bad guys and I'm still angry finding out we even inadvertently armed them, but I'd NEVER defend them. And yet you think Hezbollah are the good guys. L O L
 

robto

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
6,173
Lisbon, Portugal
If you were honest or knowledgeable about the porous/imaginary nature of the Afghan and Pakistani border and its essentially lawlessness, the role the Pakistani ISI played in the Soviet Afghan War and the subsequent War on Terror, you'd admit the Pakistani govt had a MAJOR problem with its NW territories, something they'd ignored until they couldn't any longer. Either clean up your mess or someone else will.
You are not necessarily contradicting my arguments.

But sure. This is all America's fault. We built the madrassas. We radicalized everyone. We are the ones who allowed Al Qaeda and others free and easy access between Afghanistan and Pakistan. We even hid Bin Laden in Abbottabad. Clearly all the US's fault.
America decided to "clean the region of terrorists", the results were mixed at best...
 
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Nov 2014
1,654
Birmingham, UK
If you were honest or knowledgeable about the porous/imaginary nature of the Afghan and Pakistani border and its essentially lawlessness, the role the Pakistani ISI played in the Soviet Afghan War and the subsequent War on Terror, you'd admit the Pakistani govt had a MAJOR problem with its NW territories, something they'd ignored until they couldn't any longer. Either clean up your mess or someone else will.

But sure. This is all America's fault. We built the madrassas. We radicalized everyone. We are the ones who allowed Al Qaeda and others free and easy access between Afghanistan and Pakistan. We even hid Bin Laden in Abbottabad. Clearly all the US's fault.
Sure, Pakistan is a sh1tshow, and personally I would say the war against the Russians in Afghanistan should be cited as a primary factor in increasing jihadi influence and destabilising the country, especially in the Pushtun areas.

I don't think it can be denied that the GWOT has further destabilised Pakistan, however
 

robto

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
6,173
Lisbon, Portugal
It's strange, that's the kind of phrase you hear quite a lot about the Middle East, as though it's some kind of singularity, as though the rest of the world has been in perpetual peace. I'm surprised to see it on a historical forum though as for me it's a wholly hollow phrase, unless some region of the world can be cited where they have not been 'killing each other since Roman times'
I hope I'm not offending anyone, but I find this kind of argument as one of the worst to be used in an history forum like this one.
 
May 2017
1,201
Syria
And yet you think Hezbollah are the good guys. L O L
Just a reminder that you're comparing al-Qaeda affiliates such as al-Nusra which has been involved since 2013 in numerous massacres, beheading, and mass executions on religious and sectarian basis in my country, with Hezbollah who aside from being a legitimate sociopolitical organization and political party with representation in Lebanon's government and parliament have support from all of Lebanon's faiths and sects and despite being mainly Shiite has protected Christians in Lebanon and Syria and supported the cause of the majority Sunni Palestinians...
 
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aggienation

Ad Honorem
Jul 2016
9,745
USA
Sure, Pakistan is a sh1tshow, and personally I would say the war against the Russians in Afghanistan should be cited as a primary factor in increasing jihadi influence and destabilising the country, especially in the Pushtun areas.

I don't think it can be denied that the GWOT has further destabilised Pakistan, however
Some in this thread do little else but post antagonistically about the US, they never stop trying to make the US their scapegoat. If you want to talk modern Pakistan, the bad guy isn't the US for making the Pakistani govt handle their business, its the Taliban and other Islamist groups that are prospering in the NW territories of Pakistan (and crossing still porous borders into Afghanistan).

The Islamist already controlled NW Pakistan, it was already essentially autonomous in that the Pakistani govt wasn't trying to enforce law and order. It had been that way since the Soviet Afghan War when the boundary between the two nations broke down, the mass migration, the large numbers of refugees who partially settled in Pakistan. Additionally the Pakistani ISI had been actively supporting those same Islamists, and they were (and are) really their own fiefdom when it comes to the Pakistani govt.

Yes, absolutely 9/11 destabilzied Pakistan, it destabilized the US too, and lots of other places. War has a tendency of doing that. But the Taliban were harboring and supporting Bin Laden and that cost them their country. And Al Qaeda and the Taliban both were able to cross over to safe havens inside Pakistan with no problems at all. Bin Laden did hide "openly" in Pakistan, likely with the knowledge, if not blessing, of the ISI for nearly a decade before he was finally found and killed.

The current conflict between the Pakistani govt and its own homegrown Islamists is nothing more than the acknowledgement that those people already existed. Let's say I have wolves on my property. At first I do nothing, just lock myself in doors, easier to just not deal with them. Later another neighbor whose livestock the wolves are preying on tells me that I need to take care of it or they will, and they'll give me a load of money to pay for the hunting. If I go out to finally deal with those wolves and I get bit, that situation wasn't the result of the neighbors. It was the result of the wolves.
 

aggienation

Ad Honorem
Jul 2016
9,745
USA
Just a reminder that you're comparing al-Qaeda affiliates such as al-Nusra which has been involved since 2013 in numerous massacres, beheading, and mass executions on religious and sectarian basis in my country, with Hezbollah who aside from being a legitimate sociopolitical organization and political party with representation in Lebanon's government and parliament have support from all of Lebanon's faiths and sects and despite being mainly Shiite has protected Christians in Lebanon and Syria and supported the cause of the majority Sunni Palestinians...
And there we have it folks. The Pro-Assad propagandist is, again, supporting Hezbollah, a recognized terrorist group.