USA Northern Race relations pre great migration?

Oct 2018
2
Miami, Fl
#1
The was obviously, very very few African Americans in the north before the great migration from the southern states happened. Harvard, educated Historian Thomas Sowell claims in his book, Black Rednecks and White Liberals that the tiny number of blacks who were in the north pre great migration and post slavery, had come to be treated basically just like anyone else. Then he claims that the blacks who came from the southern states ruined this, with their backwards, unlikable and self destructive culture. Thomas Sowell notes that even many blacks who were in the north pre great migration had come to resent the culture these southern had blacks brought, much less the northern whites. The same thing happened out West he claimed. Is there any good evidence of this that anyone can provide? I know it doesn't fit historical narratives but to me this would make a lot of sense. A youtube white nationalist by the name of Alternative Hypothesis, also found the same thing in his research apparently but blamed the genetics of southern blacks instead of just the culture. Thanks in advance for anyone who reply without nastiness.
 

Rodger

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
4,975
US
#2
I can only tell you from my research regarding the city where my Polish and Italian ancestors settled and from anecdotal conversations with my grandmother, who lived it, there were integrated neighborhoods. My Polish ancestors lived on an integrated street. My Italian grandmother lived in a tenement building with African American neighbors who assisted each other through difficult times, including the years of the Great Depression. Still, there was a sense of competition, as the Southern Blacks moving into the city were competing with the Italians, Poles and other Slavic groups for the same housing and jobs, primarily in the steel mills. All three groups were perceived as illiterate and uncouth by most of the native citizens, not surprisingly, as most of the incoming groups came with little education and knowledge of the primary culture. The African Americans did have the advantage of speaking the language. I would recommend the following book for a further perspective: UI Press | John Bodnar, Roger Simon, and Michael P. Weber | Lives of Their Own: Blacks, Italians, and Poles in Pittsburgh, 1900-1960
 
Likes: Futurist
Oct 2018
20
Baja, Mexico
#5
The was obviously, very very few African Americans in the north before the great migration from the southern states happened. Harvard, educated Historian Thomas Sowell claims in his book, Black Rednecks and White Liberals that the tiny number of blacks who were in the north pre great migration and post slavery, had come to be treated basically just like anyone else. Then he claims that the blacks who came from the southern states ruined this, with their backwards, unlikable and self destructive culture. Thomas Sowell notes that even many blacks who were in the north pre great migration had come to resent the culture these southern had blacks brought, much less the northern whites. The same thing happened out West he claimed. Is there any good evidence of this that anyone can provide? I know it doesn't fit historical narratives but to me this would make a lot of sense. A youtube white nationalist by the name of Alternative Hypothesis, also found the same thing in his research apparently but blamed the genetics of southern blacks instead of just the culture. Thanks in advance for anyone who reply without nastiness.
I lived in St. Louis, MO from about 1962 - 70. There was a great influx of negroes from the deep south at that time. The rental housing available was owned mostly by Jews and was not kept up. The combination of people who did not know how to live in a city environment and people who did not take care of their property led to the rapid decline of the city into a slum. The negroes that I knew were educated and had good jobs. They were horrified by what was happening to the city but helpless to stop it.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
12,997
SoCal
#6
The was obviously, very very few African Americans in the north before the great migration from the southern states happened. Harvard, educated Historian Thomas Sowell claims in his book, Black Rednecks and White Liberals that the tiny number of blacks who were in the north pre great migration and post slavery, had come to be treated basically just like anyone else. Then he claims that the blacks who came from the southern states ruined this, with their backwards, unlikable and self destructive culture. Thomas Sowell notes that even many blacks who were in the north pre great migration had come to resent the culture these southern had blacks brought, much less the northern whites. The same thing happened out West he claimed. Is there any good evidence of this that anyone can provide? I know it doesn't fit historical narratives but to me this would make a lot of sense. A youtube white nationalist by the name of Alternative Hypothesis, also found the same thing in his research apparently but blamed the genetics of southern blacks instead of just the culture. Thanks in advance for anyone who reply without nastiness.
If you want hard evidence in regards to this, you could try comparing the literacy rate of Northern vs. Southern Blacks in 1910. That could give you a picture of whether North Blacks before the Great Migration were indeed more elite than their Southern counterparts.

Also, what you wrote here certainly does appear to make sense. After all, there was a lot of European immigration to the Northern U.S. before World War I and thus it was harder for African-Americans to find jobs in the North back then. In turn, what this would suggest is that Blacks who did manage to find a job in the North before World War I were indeed more intelligent than their Southern counterparts. Of course, without hard data, this is only speculation.
 

Rodger

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
4,975
US
#7
If you want hard evidence in regards to this, you could try comparing the literacy rate of Northern vs. Southern Blacks in 1910. That could give you a picture of whether North Blacks before the Great Migration were indeed more elite than their Southern counterparts.

Also, what you wrote here certainly does appear to make sense. After all, there was a lot of European immigration to the Northern U.S. before World War I and thus it was harder for African-Americans to find jobs in the North back then. In turn, what this would suggest is that Blacks who did manage to find a job in the North before World War I were indeed more intelligent than their Southern counterparts. Of course, without hard data, this is only speculation.
There were a good deal of jobs in northern cities, though workers often received one, only to be furloughed in the volatile markets and economy of the day. Interestingly, in the book I referenced in post #2, the authors state the Blacks who settled in Pittsburgh were more mobile than the Italians and Poles. They often moved on, sometimes because they had difficulty securing a job and sometimes because they were generally more interested in upward mobility, as understood in terms of being an entrepreneur or having a job that pays well, or even simply as service sector job, as opposed to working in the steel mills. The Poles were the least mobile. A steady job and homeownership, to support their family, was the barometer of "success" for them. The book is an interesting read, even if one has no affiliation with the city of these ethnic groups.
 
Likes: Futurist

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
12,997
SoCal
#8
There were a good deal of jobs in northern cities, though workers often received one, only to be furloughed in the volatile markets and economy of the day. Interestingly, in the book I referenced in post #2, the authors state the Blacks who settled in Pittsburgh were more mobile than the Italians and Poles. They often moved on, sometimes because they had difficulty securing a job and sometimes because they were generally more interested in upward mobility, as understood in terms of being an entrepreneur or having a job that pays well, or even simply as service sector job, as opposed to working in the steel mills. The Poles were the least mobile. A steady job and homeownership, to support their family, was the barometer of "success" for them. The book is an interesting read, even if one has no affiliation with the city of these ethnic groups.
I'll see if I can get access to this book for free.
 

Port

Ad Honorem
Feb 2013
2,051
portland maine
#9
I can only tell you from my research regarding the city where my Polish and Italian ancestors settled and from anecdotal conversations with my grandmother, who lived it, there were integrated neighborhoods. My Polish ancestors lived on an integrated street. My Italian grandmother lived in a tenement building with African American neighbors who assisted each other through difficult times, including the years of the Great Depression. Still, there was a sense of competition, as the Southern Blacks moving into the city were competing with the Italians, Poles and other Slavic groups for the same housing and jobs, primarily in the steel mills. All three groups were perceived as illiterate and uncouth by most of the native citizens, not surprisingly, as most of the incoming groups came with little education and knowledge of the primary culture. The African Americans did have the advantage of speaking the language. I would recommend the following book for a further perspective: UI Press | John Bodnar, Roger Simon, and Michael P. Weber | Lives of Their Own: Blacks, Italians, and Poles in Pittsburgh, 1900-1960
Here is another book The warmth of other suns by Isabel Wilkerson
 
Likes: Rodger

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