Vedic Swastika : History, Archaeology and Tradition

Nov 2014
90
Montréal
No, see we work with evidence. The appearance of the Swastika predates the beginning of Vedic culture, and appears in region unaffected by Vedic Culture. Ergo, it cannot be of Vedic origins.
What we have is a swastika which is grounded in the Indian soil, for sure, with scriptures, traditions, rituals, etc.
Elsewhere it is mainly speculation. We can see that the swastika existed but no real and lengthy explanation about it.
Is that what you are saying ?
 
Nov 2014
474
India
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What evidence you have, copy of views of others, You even didn't know that Swastika is Indian

Overcome fallacious dating of Vedas and making childlike unqualified arguments on the basis of that dating, moreover, any date of edict whether right or wrong, has no correspondence to prevalence of belief and it's ideation.

Such a boggy shows inferiority and attitude to talk without knowledge.


No, see we work with evidence. The appearance of the Swastika predates the beginning of Vedic culture, and appears in region unaffected by Vedic Culture. Ergo, it cannot be of Vedic origins.

Now, what was its purpose? We have no definitive evidence as to its purpose or meaning when it originated. It has been found in different contexts across the world. As such, given the absence of concrete evidence, we are left with speculations. A hypothesis not supported by positive evidence however cannot be posited as an affirmative conclusion and hence we use terms to ensure that people understand this.

History is a subject where we do not know everything, and realistically cannot know everything. When we speculate as to things we don't know for certain, we appropriately preface them with the necessary caveats - perhaps for example indicating that this is what individuals feel.

Given the wide usage its use as a fertility or luck symbol is highly likely, although this is not confirmed by positive evidence, so it is still speculative, even if likely.
 
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Nov 2014
474
India
I mean't that the Indo-Europeans would have not travelled into Americas and Africa :)

By Aryans I meant the Indo-Europeans.Their origins are obscure, and they practised diverse religious beliefs varying with the specific branches.

How Vedic people, the Aryans talks of 'Vishva' or the 'World' in the same sense, we talk today. How they know ( in Purans and other texts ) no of oceans and continents ?
Who brought Swastika to Australia and Peru ? Why a tribe in Africa says that they are the descendant of troops of a King who came from India for gold mining ?


When Vedas are full of references to long-long travels beyond deserts, deep oceans and high mountains, when it is made overboard in the text, if we turn a leaf, we find reference to some or other travels, what stops in acknowledging travels to distant places, is it because, those writers had not known or included in their works on Vedas.

Let me tell you, Vedas are not studied properly in last 150 years .

---------------------------- On Faith and Religious Order of Vedas -----------------------------------------------


Aryans are like today's Indians, aligned to numerous forms of Gods and having many faiths, they were religious and irreligious, Same freedom existed in Rigveda where nothing is said against or to control different forms of Gods, different faiths but they are very strict to control immorality, exploitation, extortion, abusive talks, cheatings and money launderings in business, crime against women.

Anthropology is something why that's not used while studying Vedic civilization and their impact, it's all been like, you lower your measuring parameters, don't measure an elephant and then say elephant is of goat size.
 
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tornada

Ad Honoris
Mar 2013
15,398
India
What we have is a swastika which is grounded in the Indian soil, for sure, with scriptures, traditions, rituals, etc.
Elsewhere it is mainly speculation. We can see that the swastika existed but no real and lengthy explanation about it.
Is that what you are saying ?
That also doesn't follow. The swastika does not appear to have originated as an important symbol and only later in Vedic history would become important. Moreover the usage of the swastika also went into later today periods. The swastikas that we find in other places are significantly older than Vedic culture itself. They are also associated with contexts that the Vedic people did not use the swastika in. Thus any assumption that the swastika is of Vedic origin merely because you feel it was "explained more" is an assumption not supported by any form of evidence.

Its actually circular thinking. Since the Swastika is Indian (though no proof exists for this assertion) swastikas significantly older than the Vedic swastika must prove the antiquity of Vedic culture. Unfortunately such thinking is grounded in poor logic and poorer evidentiary support. If anything the evidence shows that the swastika could not have originated in India
 

tornada

Ad Honoris
Mar 2013
15,398
India
What evidence you have, copy of views of others, You even didn't know that Swastika is Indian

Overcome fallacious dating of Vedas and making childlike unqualified arguments on the basis of that dating, moreover, any date of edict whether right or wrong, has no correspondence to prevalence of belief and it's ideation.

Such a boggy shows inferiority and attitude to talk without knowledge.
Litsol the evidence has already been presented. It is only you who refuses to accept it because it is "copied". I cannot make you overcome wilful ignorance or bias. As they say, you can take a horse to the river but you cannot make it drink. The evidence lies in front of, gathered and analyzed by experts from different fields. If you reject it that is your prerogative, bit it will not validate your own theories for which there is no academic support or proof. Even on this forum, all you have done is made claims. There isn't any reference to evidence nor is there any citation to show the validity or support for your conclusions and connections between various phenomenon. Forgive me I I don't believe a computer engineer over expert biologists, anthropologists, linguists and historians.
 
Jan 2012
1,350
uk
Swastikas are found across globe and adored in almost all ancient cultures however the definition of Swasti and Swastika with mandate to use in travels and rituals are only found in Vedic Aryans, The widespread finding of Swastika indicates Aryan expansion in every corner of the world, A discussion is solicited here on the intriguing issue pertaining to Swastika such that origin, archaeological records, history and tradition.

I believe, exploring Swastika shall give is new food for thought, new light on Ancient Civilizations and the interface in between them.

Let's have constructive discussion !
I differ from you friend. Swastika is not the symbol of vedic aryans. Historically, this symbol first appears in IVC Mohanjadharo, Harrappa and Lothal sites itself. Pease note that IVC is not a Aryan civilisation and purely it belongs to Dravidians. Because of Hitler who felt very proud of calling himself an ARYAN , everyone has a common opinion that Swastik is belongs to Aryans

Some scholars says that the SWASTIK is the symbol of the word" OM" a dravidian south indian spiritual word. In sanskritisation, the word OM is evolved as "swastik " symbol with a "auspecious' meaning. (Ref. M.Ramachandran.R.Mathivanan, The spring of the Indus civilisation .1991 page 48)
 
Nov 2014
474
India
You have no evidences , you don't know what Swastika is.


Litsol the evidence has already been presented. It is only you who refuses to accept it because it is "copied". I cannot make you overcome wilful ignorance or bias. As they say, you can take a horse to the river but you cannot make it drink. The evidence lies in front of, gathered and analyzed by experts from different fields. If you reject it that is your prerogative, bit it will not validate your own theories for which there is no academic support or proof. Even on this forum, all you have done is made claims. There isn't any reference to evidence nor is there any citation to show the validity or support for your conclusions and connections between various phenomenon. Forgive me I I don't believe a computer engineer over expert biologists, anthropologists, linguists and historians.
 
Nov 2014
474
India
IVC site is purely Vedic Civilization, All the artifacts proved so.

As per you - Swastika is the symbol of Om, I am in agreement with it, but, what is OM, where you get the word OM. if you get a little deep into scriptures, you will find that word OM is the Vedic word ( Mundakopnishad ), it's the Udgeeth of Rigveda also.

Pls let me know me about Dravida civilization, their faith, their Gods, their social attributes etc.

In my knowledge it's same South Indian branch of Vedic Aryans who spoke Tamil, Kannada, Malyalam and Telugu etc. and collectively called Dravida, Dravida is more used for Kannada speaking people than the Tamil speaking people. The word "Dravida" means those who live near sea ( Water Body - Drava), What the word "Dravida" means in Tamil, Kannada, Malyalam and Telugu languages, Pls let me know.








I differ from you friend. Swastika is not the symbol of vedic aryans. Historically, this symbol first appears in IVC Mohanjadharo, Harrappa and Lothal sites itself. Pease note that IVC is not a Aryan civilisation and purely it belongs to Dravidians. Because of Hitler who felt very proud of calling himself an ARYAN , everyone has a common opinion that Swastik is belongs to Aryans

Some scholars says that the SWASTIK is the symbol of the word" OM" a dravidian south indian spiritual word. In sanskritisation, the word OM is evolved as "swastik " symbol with a "auspecious' meaning. (Ref. M.Ramachandran.R.Mathivanan, The spring of the Indus civilisation .1991 page 48)
 
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janusdviveidis

Ad Honorem
Mar 2014
2,026
Lithuania
I don't know if this is relevant, but I have seen block of stone decorated with swastikas in Turkey, near Kusadasi in amphitheater of Ephesus.
 

tornada

Ad Honoris
Mar 2013
15,398
India
You have no evidences , you don't know what Swastika is.
I actually do have evidence. I've already presented and more importantly properly referenced it. Maybe you are projecting the inadequacy of your own argument on to mine? Hmmm...