Vedic Swastika : History, Archaeology and Tradition

Nov 2014
474
India
I don't think, evidences are disappeared in air, re-produce them to show what is Swastika and how it get's the name 'Swastika' through a non Vedic evidence.

I actually do have evidence. I've already presented and more importantly properly referenced it. Maybe you are projecting the inadequacy of your own argument on to mine? Hmmm...
 
Nov 2014
474
India
@@ laziz,

In Rigvedic Hymn 9.63.5, objective of Aryans is echoed the context is the praise to Indra .

इन्द्रं वर्धन्तो अप्तुरः ​कृण्वन्तो विश्वं आर्यम् ​| अपघ्रंतो अराण्वः

Indram vardhanto apturah krinvanto vishwam aaryam apaghnanto araavNah

It goes like this - " Indra, grown in strength, let's spread to make the world civilized (Arya, आर्य ) and let's remove wickedness (अराण्वः ) "

I don't want to run the other thread on Vedic Swastika, let's discuss it here only.
 

tornada

Ad Honoris
Mar 2013
15,398
India
I don't think, evidences are disappeared in air, re-produce them to show what is Swastika and how it get's the name 'Swastika' through a non Vedic evidence.
Huh? The name swastika is Vedic. When did I deny that? Its the symbol which is pre Vedic. That's what the evidence shows. And that is what you have to refute. The term swastika is Vedic. That isn't what is contradicted by the evidence. It's the supposed Vedic origins of the symbol which is and which you have been unable to adequately account for
 
Nov 2014
474
India
Aryan's Expansion Through Oceanic Route & Oceanic Colonies

@@ Vajra,

Rigvedic Hymn 9.63.5 that provides us the objective of Aryans as echoed in it, the context is the praise to Indra .

इन्द्रं वर्धन्तो अप्तुरः ​कृण्वन्तो विश्वं आर्यम् ​| अपघ्रंतो अराण्वः

Indram vardhanto apturah krinvanto vishwam aaryam apaghnanto araavNah

It goes like this - " Indra, grown in strength, let's spread to make the world civilized (Arya, आर्य ) and let's remove wickedness (अराण्वः ) "

Other Evidences

Evidences of Aryans having settlements, colonies within oceans ( Overseas in our language of the day ) , These two mantras are good enough to retire Steve Farmer, Witzel and Romila Thapar likes when they were producing false history of Aryan Invasion from URAL/Central Asia -

हृदाश्च पुण्डरीकाणी, समुद्रस्य गृहा इमे ​​ ( ऋग्वेद 10. 142. 8 )
अपामिदं न्ययनं समुद्रस्य निवेशनं ​​ ( अथर्व 2. 6 . 106 . 2 )

Pls note these mantras down right, and use when world class scholars present their ignorance on expansion of Vedic Civilization, Overseas and this is how Swastika spread.

How Vedic people, the Aryans talks of 'Vishva' or the 'World' in the same sense, we talk today. How they know ( in Purans and other texts ) no of oceans and continents ?
Who brought Swastika to Australia and Peru ? Why a tribe in Africa says that they are the descendant of troops of a King who came from India for gold mining ?


When Vedas are full of references to long-long travels beyond deserts, deep oceans and high mountains, when it is made overboard in the text, if we turn a leaf, we find reference to some or other travels, what stops in acknowledging travels to distant places, is it because, those writers had not known or included in their works on Vedas.

Let me tell you, Vedas are not studied properly in last 150 years .

---------------------------- On Faith and Religious Order of Vedas -----------------------------------------------


Aryans are like today's Indians, aligned to numerous forms of Gods and having many faiths, they were religious and irreligious, Same freedom existed in Rigveda where nothing is said against or to control different forms of Gods, different faiths but they are very strict to control immorality, exploitation, extortion, abusive talks, cheatings and money launderings in business, crime against women.

Anthropology is something why that's not used while studying Vedic civilization and their impact, it's all been like, you lower your measuring parameters, don't measure an elephant and then say elephant is of goat size.
 
Last edited:
Nov 2014
474
India
Good, that you witjdraw the false and superficial argument that Swastika is non Vedic.

Huh? The name swastika is Vedic. When did I deny that?

Its the symbol which is pre Vedic
Wrong, Since, it has been in continuity among Vedic from unknown antiquity, It's symbol of Vedic Civilization, words Pre - Vedic or Pre - Pre - Vedic is immaterial.

Here are the design elements of Swastika :

Vedang Jyotish
 
Last edited:

tornada

Ad Honoris
Mar 2013
15,398
India
Good, that you witjdraw the false and superficial argument that Swastika is non Vedic.




Wrong, Since, it has been in continuity among Vedic from unknown antiquity, It's symbol of Vedic Civilization, words Pre - Vedic or Pre - Pre - Vedic is immaterial.

Here are the design elements of Swastika :

Vedang Jyotish
It was an argument I never made. And you're still not providing evidence that would support a pre Vedic origins
 
Nov 2014
90
Montréal
That also doesn't follow...
... Moreover the usage of the swastika also went into later today periods. The swastikas that we find in other places are significantly older than Vedic culture itself. They are also associated with contexts that the Vedic people did not use the swastika in.
Its actually circular thinking...
...Unfortunately such thinking is grounded in poor logic and poorer evidentiary support. If anything the evidence shows that the swastika could not have originated in India
I was asking you, as I gave my evidences (how in India they used it for), to give me, in your turn, evidences for its use by other civilizations. This way we can compare what for they were using it and what power they gave to this symbol. Thanks
 
Nov 2014
90
Montréal
Rigvedic Hymn 9.63.5 that provides us the objective of Aryans as echoed in it, the context is the praise to Indra .
It goes like this - " Indra, grown in strength, let's spread to make the world civilized (Arya, आर्य ) and let's remove wickedness (अराण्वः ) "

Other Evidences
हृदाश्च पुण्डरीकाणी, समुद्रस्य गृहा इमे ​​ ( ऋग्वेद 10. 142. 8 )
अपामिदं न्ययनं समुद्रस्य निवेशनं ​​ ( अथर्व 2. 6 . 106 . 2 )
If you don't put the translation, Lalit, for the latter evidences, it is going to be difficult to understand you.

Will you kindly explain what is your understanding of hymn 9.63.5. Is this Indra talking to Vishnu? Can you tell the context? When it happened?
Do you consider this hymn to be one of the best example? Do you have more like that? How do we form Aryans according to the hymn you gave? What it means to become an Aryan, to be civilized as an Aryan?

Do you believe in Gods? In the Vedas? Are you an atheist or religious minded?
What are the authorities you are following in this matter?
What do you think of Bal Gangadhar Tilak's theory about the Aryans?
Thank you --Laziz

You wrote
It goes like this - " Indra, grown in strength, let's spread to make the world civilized (Arya, आर्य ) and let's remove wickedness (अराण्वः ) "
So, what means here the "world" ?
 
Last edited:
Nov 2014
474
India
I thought, you can read hindi fonts, Okm shall be putting interpretation in next post.


If you don't put the translation, Lalit, for the latter evidences, it is going to be difficult to understand you.

Will you kindly explain what is your understanding of hymn 9.63.5. Is this Indra talking to Vishnu? Can you tell the context? When it happened?
Do you consider this hymn to be one of the best example? Do you have more like that? How do we form Aryans according to the hymn you gave? What it means to become an Aryan, to be civilized as an Aryan?

Do you believe in Gods? In the Vedas? Are you an atheist or religious minded?
What are the authorities you are following in this matter?
What do you think of Bal Gangadhar Tilak's theory about the Aryans?
Thank you --Laziz

You wrote
So, what means here the "world" ?
 

tornada

Ad Honoris
Mar 2013
15,398
India
I was asking you, as I gave my evidences (how in India they used it for), to give me, in your turn, evidences for its use by other civilizations. This way we can compare what for they were using it and what power they gave to this symbol. Thanks
Asked and answered. It goes back to Neolithic Mesopotamia, Balkans, Europe. As to how much power. That would be irrelevant to dating it or claiming it is of Vedic origins. There
are a variety of theories and I wont bother posting any since I would only be "copying" it