Vichy, the defence of the colonies, and the French Civil War (1940/2)

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,764
Portugal
During WWII, and after the 1940 Armistice, we saw a war inside a war. Vichy France was attacked by the Gaullists, in what was a Civil War, by the UK, Thailand, Japan, USA, Germany, Italy, and probably I am forgetting someone…

I would like to hear here some of those small stories of history, the details, that often don’t reach the World History Books with their focused narratives on the "big" events, or when they reach... they are often just a small forgotten footnote.
 

pugsville

Ad Honoris
Oct 2010
10,098
One of the really weird things I find reading about vichy fairly recently is they paid allowances to the dependents of sailors serving in the Free French Fleet, (IIRC the same rate as the Vichy Fleet) There was a fapple about it so the senoir naval officers of the Free french fleet had their alloawances to their dependnets cut, but they were then paid thorughthe back door. I posted this in anotehr thread some weeks ago. But I still find it very curious. The French Navy looking after it''s own regardless of which side of the conflict!
 
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Mar 2015
1,510
Yorkshire
During WWII, and after the 1940 Armistice, we saw a war inside a war. Vichy France was attacked by the Gaullists, in what was a Civil War, by the UK, Thailand, Japan, USA, Germany, Italy, and probably I am forgetting someone…

I would like to hear here some of those small stories of history, the details, that often don’t reach the World History Books with their focused narratives on the "big" events, or when they reach... they are often just a small forgotten footnote.
You forgot Austalians and South Africans
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,764
Portugal
One of the really weird things I find reading about vichy fairly recently is they paid allowances to the dependents of sailors serving in the Free French Fleet, (IIRC the same rate as the Vichy Fleet) There was a fapple about it so the senoir naval officers of the Free french fleet had their alloawances to their dependnets cut, but they were then paid thorughthe back door. I posted this in anotehr thread some weeks ago. But I still find it very curious. The French Navy looking after it''s own regardless of which side of the conflict!
That is interesting and odd.

You forgot Austalians and South Africans
True, an probably some others, like I said in the post. I recall now the British Indian Army. I should had written British Empire/Commonwealth, instead of UK. My apologies.

I had an oncle which stayed in Indochina with the French foreign legion.
From his letters we know that he did not think much about the little yellow men.

He was probably wrong as he had his head chop off by this little men.

The “coexistence” there was certainly difficult for the French.

But, during Japanese ocupation, the French troops were still in Indochina, I mean, there was no retreat?

I also took a look here, to recall some details:
French Indochina in World War II - Wikipedia
 
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stevev

Ad Honorem
Apr 2017
3,808
Las Vegas, NV USA
In 1940 the US recognized the Vichy government . Vichy France was occupied by Germany on Nov 8, 1942 with the Operation Torch landings in Morocco. The UK never recognized Vichy.


"The United States granted Vichy full diplomatic recognition, sending Admiral William D. Leahy to France as ambassador. President Roosevelt and Secretary of State Cordell Hull hoped to use American influence to encourage those elements in the Vichy government opposed to military collaboration with Germany." google


Edit: "The US downgraded its relations with Vichy when Laval became premier again in April 1942." google.

Apparently these relations existed in some form until Vichy disappeared in 1942.
 
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deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
15,022
Europix
One of the really weird things I find reading about vichy fairly recently is they paid allowances to the dependents of sailors serving in the Free French Fleet, (IIRC the same rate as the Vichy Fleet) There was a fapple about it so the senoir naval officers of the Free french fleet had their alloawances to their dependnets cut, but they were then paid thorughthe back door. I posted this in anotehr thread some weeks ago. But I still find it very curious. The French Navy looking after it''s own regardless of which side of the conflict!
It's not only the Navy.

Here's a small but interesting article on this aspect (and it's meeting also Tulius' desire for details on the "small history"): » La justice de Vichy et les Français libres : le cas de Félix Broche ; » La répression des marins des FNFL

It is in French, but I believe it's worth reading even with all the downfalls of a translator.
 
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Futurist

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May 2014
24,516
SoCal
In 1940 the US recognized the Vichy government . Vichy France was occupied by Germany on Nov 8, 1942 with the Operation Torch landings in Morocco. The UK never recognized Vichy.


"The United States granted Vichy full diplomatic recognition, sending Admiral William D. Leahy to France as ambassador. President Roosevelt and Secretary of State Cordell Hull hoped to use American influence to encourage those elements in the Vichy government opposed to military collaboration with Germany." google


Edit: "The US downgraded its relations with Vichy when Laval became premier again in April 1942." google.

Apparently these relations existed in some form until Vichy disappeared in 1942.
FWIW, Vichy technically didn't disappear in 1942. It simply got occupied by Nazi Germany, but its government was allowed to keep running and to maintain nominal charge of the country. The true end for Vichy was after D-Day.

One of the really weird things I find reading about vichy fairly recently is they paid allowances to the dependents of sailors serving in the Free French Fleet, (IIRC the same rate as the Vichy Fleet) There was a fapple about it so the senoir naval officers of the Free french fleet had their alloawances to their dependnets cut, but they were then paid thorughthe back door. I posted this in anotehr thread some weeks ago. But I still find it very curious. The French Navy looking after it''s own regardless of which side of the conflict!
Just how did these back-door payments work?
 

stevev

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Apr 2017
3,808
Las Vegas, NV USA
FWIW, Vichy technically didn't disappear in 1942. It simply got occupied by Nazi Germany, but its government was allowed to keep running and to maintain nominal charge of the country. The true end for Vichy was after D-Day.
Interesting. I was surprised to learn that t he US recognized Vichy after entering the war, and more surprised that it only lowered the level of recognition in April, 1942. With Torch we have the French fleet firing on British and US forces. It seems the US would go with the Free French (de Gaulle) rather than whatever existed of Vichy after Torch. When did the US formally break relations with Vichy?
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
24,516
SoCal
Interesting. I was surprised to learn that t he US recognized Vichy after entering the war, and more surprised that it only lowered the level of recognition in April, 1942. With Torch we have the French fleet firing on British and US forces. It seems the US would go with the Free French (de Gaulle) rather than whatever existed of Vichy after Torch. When did the US formally break relations with Vichy?
Actually, if the info here is anything to go by, you might actually be correct about the US breaking off relations with Vichy France after the Nazis occupied it in 1942:


The same thing appears to be stated in the last paragraph here:


It also states that FDR only recognized de Gaulle's government in late 1944 and previously tried to find other leadership for the Free French movement, such as General Henri Giraud (who initially cooperated with de Gaulle but later got displaced by de Gaulle).
 
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