War of Secession and foreigners

Oct 2015
874
Virginia
#12
The 1860 census showed that 13.2% of the US population was foreign born, and since most of these people were young males, the number of foreign born volunteers was large. Of the ~2 million individuals who entered the US Army, Navy and Marines a quarter to a fifth were foreign born. Perhaps 175,000 from German states, ~150,000 from Ireland, ~50,000 from Scotland, Wales and England, ~50,000 from British America, ~75,000 from elsewhere. There were fewer foreign born soldiers in the Southern forces as fewer immigrants settled in the more rural South, but units from New Orleans, Charleston, Memphis, Richmond and Texas included foreign born men.

Many foreign born volunteers became general officers in both armies: Cleburne, Meagher, Sweeney from Ireland, Schurz, Sigel, Blenker, Stahel from Germany, d'Utassy, Asboth from Hungary, Polignac, de Trobriand and prince Napoleon from France, Turchin from Russia, many others.

Due to the way civil war units were recruited, a number of regiments were predominantly foreign: 63d, 69th, 88th New York of the "Irish Brigade", 73d, 74th Pennslvania Germans, 15th Wisconsin mostly Swedes and Norwiegans, 79th New York Scottish, 58th New York Polish...many others.

Most were recent immigrants or refugees from the revolutions of 1848, the Irish famine or depressed areas of Scotland and Wales, on the way to becoming citizens and volunteered for service. $13 a month wouldn't attract many "mercenaries", but the state and local bounties offered later in the war may have attracted some.
 
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Offspring

Ad Honorem
Mar 2013
8,104
România
#13
Sorry.In France it is the name used,"the war of Secession,between the nordists and the sudists".
Ok, it's the same in Italy.
I always find it interesting how other countries call a certain event, especially a war.
"War of Separation" was occasionally used by people in the Confederacy during the war.[16] In most Romance languages, the words used to refer to the war translate literally to "War of Secession" (French: Guerre de Sécession, Italian: Guerra di secessione, Spanish: Guerra de Secesión, Portuguese: Guerra de Secessão, Romanian: Războiul de Secesiune). This name is also used in Central and Eastern Europe, e.g. Sezessionskrieg is commonly used in Germany, Wojna secesyjna is exclusively used in Poland and Setsessioonisõda is used in Estonia (all literally translate as "war of secession").[citation needed]
Names of the American Civil War - Wikipedia
 
Likes: Futurist

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
26,889
Italy, Lago Maggiore
#14
I believe the "great revolutionary" was offered a general's commission, but declared he would only accept if given supreme command. That was not an option for the United States, so...no Garibaldi.

Whenever Garibaldi became involved with the International and became identified with communists is not known to me, but in 1870-71 he was pretty well connected to all that (support for Paris Commune, etc.). Despite his popularity in Europe, he may have become a suspicious figure in the US.
What I know is that Lincoln's offer was so serious that Garibaldi discussed it with the Italian king. Among other things Garibaldi, despite other assignments showed to be ready to accept. Imagine that the King left Garibaldi free to leave for US ... it was the moment of the "Roman Question" ... better not to have Garibaldi around!

The problem was about the kind of command Garibaldi expected. I don't buy the urban legend about slavery, I tend to think that Garibaldi wasn't ready to act under a President [in Italy he acted, end of history].
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
26,889
Italy, Lago Maggiore
#16
As for I have understood that Garibaldi wasn't satisfied by the envoy of the US President about one of the main goals of that war [to put the word end to slavery] is a recent "discovery". Doyle reconstructed what Henry Shelton Sanford did in Italy. Sanford had an offer signed by Lincoln and Seward. Doyle says that Garibaldi asked several times if that war was going to be fought to erase slavery in US and set slaves free. It seems he considered this a possible example also for South America. The American historian sustains that Sanford wasn't able to give a clear answer to Garibaldi.

How can Doyle know this with certainty?

Overall considering that Garibaldi wrote a letter of congratulations to President Lincoln [August 6th, 1863], Joe Biden carried a copy of that letter to Italy, giving it as a present to our President of the Republic.
 
Likes: Offspring
Feb 2011
1,083
Scotland
#17
Sorry.In France it is the name used,"the war of Secession,between the nordists and the sudists".
Definitely one to pronounce carefully, avoiding any malapropism switching first letters!

Reading Burke Davis, 'The Civil War- Strange and Interesting Facts', in the Chapter 'Imported Warriors' he mentions many foreign soldiers on both sides (in addition to German and Irish immigrants)- including-

Union-

Admiral Dahlgren, Swedish, invented large naval guns
John Ericsson, Swedish, invented 'Monitor'
General George Klapka, Hungarian, another requiring supeme command as his price;
General Turchin- Russian
Count Luigi deCesnola - Italian
Comte de Paris, and Duc de Chartres- French
Baron von Vegesach, Swedish
Prince Felix Salm-Salm - Prussian (when told that Salm-Salm was a Prince, Lincoln reportedly said 'That won't hurt you with us!'
Sir Percy Wyndham - British

Confederacy-

Marquis de Marcheville - French
aforementioned Prince de Polignac /Polecat
Heros de Boreke - German, chief of staff to Jeb Stuart

Davis mentions the claim of 40,000 Canadians but apparently believes this was for Canadians fighting for the Confederacy and considers this 'exaggerated'.

And not to mention the 'Galvanized Yankees' fighting for the Confederacy and 'Galvanized Rebs' fighting for the Union...
 
Jul 2009
9,955
#18
As for I have understood that Garibaldi wasn't satisfied by the envoy of the US President about one of the main goals of that war [to put the word end to slavery] is a recent "discovery". Doyle reconstructed what Henry Shelton Sanford did in Italy. Sanford had an offer signed by Lincoln and Seward. Doyle says that Garibaldi asked several times if that war was going to be fought to erase slavery in US and set slaves free. It seems he considered this a possible example also for South America. The American historian sustains that Sanford wasn't able to give a clear answer to Garibaldi.

How can Doyle know this with certainty?

Overall considering that Garibaldi wrote a letter of congratulations to President Lincoln [August 6th, 1863], Joe Biden carried a copy of that letter to Italy, giving it as a present to our President of the Republic.
The "main goal" of the war in 1861 was to preserve the Union. If that included slavery where it already existed, so be it. By the beginning of 1863, that had changed - different politics; different goals.

Garibaldi, as a revolutionist, had a certain appeal and cachet, but as the American Civil War developed, his impact would have been marginalized by the increasing reality of the United States as a more industrialized; more technocratic and more centralized state. By the later years of the ACW, Garibaldi may not have been very comfortable in the role of a US general. His concept of "1,000 red shirts" would have been buried in a US army of well over 1,000,000 men - who had virtually no understanding of European or Italian politics.
 

Scaeva

Ad Honorem
Oct 2012
5,630
#19
Regis de Trobriand was one of the more interesting foreign generals.



Philippe Régis Denis de Keredern de Trobriand (June 4, 1816 – July 15, 1897) was a French aristocrat, lawyer, poet, and novelist who, on a dare, emigrated in his 20s to the United States, settling first in New York City. During the American Civil War, he became naturalized, was commissioned and served in the Union Army, reaching the rank of general....

...Trobriand was born at Chateau des Rochettes, near Tours, France, the son of Joseph de Keredern de Trobriand, a baron who had been a general in Napoleon Bonaparte's army, in a family with a long tradition of military service.[1]His mother was Rosine Hachin de Courbeville.[1] In his youth, Trobriand completed a baccalaureate at the College of Saint-Louis in Paris, followed by studying law. He wrote poetry and prose, publishing his first novel, Gentlemen of the West in 1840 in Paris. His father's service to the previous king, Charles X, meant that Trobriand was excluded from serving the new one, Louis Philippe, after the July Revolution of 1830.[1] Trobriand became an expert swordsman who fought a number of duels.

In 1841, to answer a dare, Trobriand emigrated to the United States at the age of 25 and immediately became popular as a bon vivant with the social elite of New York City. He published his second novel, The Rebel, in New York in 1841....

...After the Civil War broke out, Trobriand became a naturalized citizen of the United States and on August 28, 1861, he was commissioned as an officer and given command of the 55th New York Volunteer Infantry, the predominantly French-immigrant regiment known as the Gardes de Lafayette. He and his regiment were attached to Peck's Brigade of Couch's Division, Keyes's IV Corps of the Army of the Potomac in September 1861.

They took part in the 1862 Peninsula Campaign, seeing first combat on May 5, 1862, at the Battle of Williamsburg. Soon after, Trobriand was debilitated with a malady diagnosed as "swamp fever", missed the remainder of the campaign, and was unable to return to duty until July. His regiment's next engagement, part of the brigade of Brig. Gen. J. H. Hobart Ward, III Corps of the Army of the Potomac, was at the Battle of Fredericksburg. They were held in reserve and escaped the terrible bloodshed of the Union defeat.

In December 1862, the 55th and 38th New York were merged, and Trobriand became the colonel of the now-named 38th. He led his new regiment at the Battle of Chancellorsville in May 1863, but was not heavily engaged. After the III Corps was reorganized following its severe casualties at Chancellorsville, Trobriand was given command of a new brigade.

Trobriand's military career is best known for the Battle of Gettysburg, where he first saw significant action. He arrived on the second day of battle, July 2, 1863, and took up positions in the area known as the Wheatfield. His brigade put up a spirited defense against powerful assaults by Confederate Maj. Gen. John Bell Hood's division, particularly a Georgia brigade under Brig. Gen. George T. Anderson and a South Carolina brigade under Brig. Gen. Joseph B. Kershaw. They successfully held out until relieved by units of Maj. Gen. John C. Caldwell's division of the II Corps, but it came at a terrible price—every third man in Trobriand's brigade was a casualty.

After the battle, his division commander, Maj. Gen. David B. Birney, wrote:

Colonel de Trobriand deserves my heartiest thanks for his skillful disposition of his command by gallantly holding his advanced position until relieved by other troops. This officer is one of the oldest in commission as colonel in the volunteer service [and] has been distinguished in nearly every engagement of the Army of the Potomac, and certainly deserves the rank of brigadier-general of volunteers, to which he has been recommended.​
— David B. Birney, Report on Battle of Gettysburg​
Régis de Trobriand - Wikipedia
 
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Scaeva

Ad Honorem
Oct 2012
5,630
#20
Sorry.In France it is the name used,"the war of Secession,between the nordists and the sudists".
The French name of the conflict is fairly similar to the one used by Americans in the 19th Century.

Although generally most Americans today refer to the war as either the Civil War or the American Civil War, it was called the War of the Rebellion in the mid 19th Century. The official records for the conflict use that title in fact.
 

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