Was a more humane Native American policy possible for the US?

Oct 2018
1,209
Adelaide south Australia
#11
Canada seems to have had a similar policy to Oz on first nation children, especially those of mixed race .They removed them from their parents.. They also had the same racist policy as Oz (and the the US) towards the Chinese . We banned their immigration. I mention this as it goes towards a broad racist attitude.

If anything, Australia was worse. When white settlement began here, the continent was deemed "terra nullius"' IE nobody here,.At the time there were aboriginal people in every part of Australia, including all settled areas. Between them, they spoke over 200 languages. They had trade routes from Queensland to the South West Coast of Western Australia..Estimates of their numbers at the time range from 300,000 to 3 million.

Aboriginals were not included in the census until after a referendum in 1963. They were not citizens, and had no rights.They could not drink in pubs, or go to war, although many did serve in WW1 and WW2.

They were ruled by a brutally paternalistic "Department OF Aboriginal Affairs" . Even when I was growing up, we were taught the unfounded and untrue claim that the aboriginal were a dying race. That false belief was used to remove mixed race children from their Aboriginal parents and teach them to behave like us. Their language was banned .Those children are known today as 'the stolen generation" An apology was made on the nation's behalf by our then Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, on 13 February, 2008. So that's OK then.


Today aboriginal life expectancy is over a decade less than the rest of the population, at best.. They have have the worst general health of any group in the country. Common chronic illnesses include diabetes, renal disease and chronic heart disease.

Each new government tries an alleged new approach to aboriginal problems, They seem to be always based on throwing a LOT of money at the problems, whilst never seeming to work on the causes.
Today urban Australia's attitude to aboriginals is pretty much as it's been for at least my lifetime; we ignore them. (unless of course they move in next door)

Have I ever had aboriginal neighbours? Yes, for 5 years.. DidI ignore them? Yes, they lived three houses down. I have lived in this (different) house for 27 years. . I know the people next door on either side, and that's it.

I have never hated aborigines per se. I am a misanthrope, I hate everyone equally.

Is that true?. OF course not, there are several people I quite like.:halo:


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Terra nullius (/ˈtɛrə.nʌˈlaɪəs/, plural terrae nullius) is a Latin expression meaning "nobody's land",[1] and is a principle sometimes used in international law to describe territory that may be acquired by a state's occupation of it.[2]

Terra nullius - Wikipedia




Aboriginal life expectancy


Aboriginal health standards in Australia are now so low that almost half of Aboriginal men and over a third of women die before they turn 45. Aboriginal life expectancy is more than 10 years below that of the average non-Aboriginal Australian.




Source: Aboriginal life expectancy - Creative Spirits, retrieved from Aboriginal life expectancy
 
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Larrey

Ad Honorem
Sep 2011
5,006
#12
The problem with the native policy of the US is that a lot of the problems were of a kind where the US government would have had to step in and protect the natives from private enterprise genociding them piecemeal. The situation in California springs to mind. Political arguments were made about a US citizen's right to kill Indians, not to be interfered with by meddlesome government.
 
Aug 2018
278
Southern Indiana
#13
I remember in the late 80's I was hitch-hiking in Northern Australia and came to a bar. As I was walking up to the door an Aboriginal man stopped me and said, "That's the black man's bar, you can't go in there. The white man's bar is over there." I was shocked, they had 2 bars side by side, totally segregated. A cop was standing nearby and nodded in confirmation.
 
Oct 2018
1,209
Adelaide south Australia
#14
I remember in the late 80's I was hitch-hiking in Northern Australia and came to a bar. As I was walking up to the door an Aboriginal man stopped me and said, "That's the black man's bar, you can't go in there. The white man's bar is over there." I was shocked, they had 2 bars side by side, totally segregated. A cop was standing nearby and nodded in confirmation.
Adelaide has always had its 'aboriginal pubs' . My brother always knew where they were and told me not to go in. You probably wouldn't get beaten up, as long as (a) you didn't insult anyone and (b) you bought a lot of beers for those around you.

Last segregated pub I can remember seeing was in Ceduna in 1987.
 
Jan 2010
4,357
Atlanta, Georgia USA
#15
Unfortunately, there is no scenario in which the Native Americans live happily in the manner their ancestors had. The best outcome would have been widespread intermarriage so that the US would look something like Mexico. The European way of life is incompatible with the native. Cherokees and Creeks mightr have survived with protection (which they would not have gotten) but the Plains Indians would have been wiped out.
 
Oct 2013
4,472
Canada
#16
Euopeans found a huge virgin soil, inhabited by what they considered and still consider an alien race. Peaceful expansion and coexistence was and is impossible. Even today we see Aboriginals treated as they are viewed - alien race.
 
May 2018
100
Houston, TX
#17
I think the massive killing off of the buffalo in the U.S. put the native Americans in an untenable situation. For me, that is almost as sad as the mal-treatment of the natives themselves.
 
Aug 2018
278
Southern Indiana
#18
Unfortunately, there is no scenario in which the Native Americans live happily in the manner their ancestors had. The best outcome would have been widespread intermarriage so that the US would look something like Mexico. The European way of life is incompatible with the native. Cherokees and Creeks mightr have survived with protection (which they would not have gotten) but the Plains Indians would have been wiped out.
The Cherokees had plantations and black slaves, they adapted better than most tribes. I'd say the Hopi are one exception to the rule, they live on land so harsh, the whites left them alone and they still live in on the same mesas.
 

VHS

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,292
Brassicaland
#19
I think the massive killing off of the buffalo in the U.S. put the native Americans in an untenable situation. For me, that is almost as sad as the mal-treatment of the natives themselves.
Now, we think bison meat is some kind of super lean, healthy meat; the production is too low.....
 
Oct 2009
3,435
San Diego
#20
In real life, the US was often brutal to the various Native Americans that it came across. For instance, think of the expulsion of the Cherokee and the Trail of Tears. In turn, this makes me wonder--could the U.S. have still expanded throughout North America and heavily settled a lot of this territory but treated the Native Americans in a more humane manner?

Also, as a side note, how does the brutality of the US compare with the brutality of Canada, Australia, Russia, and France when they engaged in territorial expansion?

The natives were not peaceful hippies camping in the wilds.
They, themselves were warlike, expansionist, and intolerant of their enemies continuing existence.

The Sioux tribes swept out of the area north of lake superior and eradicated at least three tribes in what became Minnesota and Wisconsin. They wrested the Black Hills from the Pawnee and decimated the Crow from 12 bands down to only 2 remaining at first white contact.

the Iroquois confederacy conquered the territories held by the affiliated tribes long before Jamestown- and defended their hegemony with warfare that did not spare women nor children.


In the scope of history, the US was actually rather generous and kind as expansionist peoples go. The Franks did not offer the Gauls a reservation, nor government support when they swept thru the valley of the Seine.
The US certainly cynically stole the land of the cherokees- but they did not butcher the cherokees but relocated them to Oklahoma.


I do not mean to excuse the US for the usurpation of native lands- but it is wrong to think of the natives as innocents when it comes to the acquisition of land thru violence. And it is wrong to characterize the US dislocation of native peoples as being brutal when it was rather bloodless compared to MOST dislocations and usurpations in world history.

Every tribe ever encountered had Warriors.
Most tribes had WON the land on which they lived thru violence against other native peoples.

There was no way on earth they were Not going to fight to keep it.
 
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