Was Akhenaten's brother Moses?

Jun 2012
7,156
Malaysia
#22
The Sumerian alternative is always a possibility ... during the captivity in Babylon the Jews collected a lot of tradition which wasn't, with all probability, Jewish at all.


There is who, in a really simple way, sustains that the real Exodus was the return of the Jews from Babylon ... [implying that the Biblical Exodus was a total invention].
And do not forget also that Abraham is believed by many to hv come to Canaan originally from somewhere in Mesopotamia. So that, his offspring people wud hv been no complete strangers to the legends of Sumeria. Even before the Babylonian captivity.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,917
Italy, Lago Maggiore
#24
The literary construction of Moses and the tale of the Exodus is more probably the result of a mix, more than the recall of a single and cohesive series of events [with a determined group of personages]. I have already said in other different threads that Moses could make the pair with King Arthur as for accuracy of the sources and reality of the literary personage.


In this thread I'm indulging in trying and imaging that a single scenario in Egyptian history could have generated the background for the tale of the Exodus. In the scenario in the OP the weakest part is just Smenkhkare [I have already expressed my opinion that "she" was Nefertiti as well, acting as a male Monarch exactly like Hatshepsut ... with the difference that Hatshepsut avoided to give to her daughter Neferure the title of Great Royal Wife, while if Nefertiti became Smenkhkare she got married with her own daughter Meritaten ...].


Anyway the competing theory about Smenkhkare is just that he was an unknown son of Amenhotep III. I wondered ... "why unknown?" Checking the destiny of the natural sons of Amenhotep III I noted that it's not proved that Thutmose died. So there was room to speculate about him.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,917
Italy, Lago Maggiore
#25
The Atenist alternative is quite romantic, but personally I see some troubles about it: overall theological problems related to the liturgy. Why did Atenists decide to start to adore the Aten like traditional Egyptians adored their deities ... once they left Akhetaten? Wasn't the Solar Disk in the sky anyway?


About this I have thought to archaeoastronomy to analyze the sites at Akhetaten [overall the Great Temple]. Was there some characteristics making that place unique as for the possibility of a direct contact with the Aten? While once left it it was necessary to go back to the traditional liturgy to carry the Aten with them? Not that easy to explain. It would seem that the Atenists didn't carry the Aten with them ... and this would be curious.
 
Jun 2012
7,156
Malaysia
#26
Well, one obvious advantage of a deity in the sky is that you no more hv to worry about sculpting, keeping, cleaning & sometimes lugging around lots & lots of heavy like heck stone statues. Perhaps it was one of the factors that actually inspired Akhenaten.
 
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AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,917
Italy, Lago Maggiore
#27
Well, one obvious advantage of a deity in the sky is that you no more hv to worry about sculpting, keeping, cleaning & sometimes lugging around lots & lots of heavy like heck stone statues.

And you can avoid what Catholics call "Prayer Vigils" ... no sun in the sky ... we can sleep!
 

Corvidius

Ad Honorem
Jul 2017
2,609
Crows nest
#28
What Carter writes about the whip handle found in KV62 is interesting as regards it's interpretation and the nature of this thread. Griffith Institute: Carter Archives - 333-13

With the dismembered parts of two chariots found in this chamber
was a whip bearing an inscription: - "The King's son captain of
the troops, Thothmes". Who was this Royal prince - who, to have
been "Captain of the troops" during the reign of Tut-ankh-Amen,
could not have been very young. Was he a son of Thothmes IV, or
was he a son of Amenhetep III? That problem has yet to be solved.
If he was a son of Thothmes IV, and was living at the time of
Tut-ankh-amen's burial, he must have reached at least 60 or more
years of age; whereas, if he was a son of Amenhetep III as one
would suspect him to have been, he would not have been more than
about 35 years of age at the time of Tut-ankh-amen's death.
Circumstantial evidence of this kind should have some bearing
upon the possibility of that princes parentage -
Also, in keeping with the premise of this thread, there is nothing solid to connect the sarcophagus of the cat to the funeral bier. They both mention a prince Thutmose, though only on the sarcophagus is he named as a crown prince and high priest of Ptah, and still alive, yet on the bier he is named just as a prince and a sem-priest. So, for the purposes of this thread, we have a model funeral bier for a dead prince who is a sem-prince, but a cat sarcophagus with the name of a living high priest and crown prince. I would expect this nomenclature to be reversed with the full titles on the bier, as otherwise he seems to have been demoted from when he was alive when his cat died.

Aside from that, we do see the figure in the bier wearing a wig and sidelock. The sidelock is often misunderstood to represent a youth, and is one of the reasons why the KV35 prince is said, by some, to be prince Thutmose. But this is wrong as a sidelock is also an attribute of Ptah and his priests. While Ptah wears the sidelock on a close fitting cap, his priests, who are adults, wear it over their wig that denotes them as adults.
 
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AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,917
Italy, Lago Maggiore
#29
What Carter writes about the whip handle found in KV62 is interesting as regards it's interpretation and the nature of this thread. Griffith Institute: Carter Archives - 333-13



Also, in keeping with the premise of this thread, there is nothing solid to connect the sarcophagus of the cat to the funeral bier. They both mention a prince Thutmose, though only on the sarcophagus is he named as a crown prince and high priest of Ptah, and still alive, yet on the bier he is named just as a prince and a sem-priest. So, for the purposes of this thread, we have a model funeral bier for a dead prince who is a sem-prince, but a cat sarcophagus with the name of a living high priest and crown prince. I would expect this nomenclature to be reversed with the full titles on the bier, as otherwise he seems to have been demoted from when he was alive when his cat died.

Aside from that, we do see the figure in the bier wearing a wig and sidelock. The sidelock is often misunderstood to represent a youth, and is one of the reasons why the KV35 prince is said, by some, to be prince Thutmose. But this is wrong as a sidelock is also an attribute of Ptah and his priests. While Ptah wears the sidelock on a close fitting cap, his priests, who are adults, wear it over their wig that denotes them as adults.

I have checked the spelling of the word for "to destroy" on the bier and actually it's so similar to the spelling of the word for White Crown [note that different spellings were available] that, being Ancient Egypt a civilization which lived on symbols, I can think to something well different from death. May be that bier was ready for his tomb, but when the artists made it Thutmose was still around ... so the artists needed his approval ... probably.
 

Corvidius

Ad Honorem
Jul 2017
2,609
Crows nest
#30
May be that bier was ready for his tomb, but when the artists made it Thutmose was still around ... so the artists needed his approval ... probably.
That thought had occurred as it was not unusual to make these things in advance, for instance there are a few shabti for Nefertiti, and in that name, but were never used. I've been trying to discover where the bier was found, for instance was it found near the cat sarcophagus at Mit Rahineh or elsewhere in the Saqqara area.