Was Ancient Greece essentially a Middle Eastern civilization?

Midas

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
4,129
Scandinavia, Balkans, Anatolia, Hatay
Yes Phrygians never became a civilisation such as Greece. Maybe too much Neolithic Middle Eastean influence wasn't really working for them.
They were doing well until they were destroyed by the Cimmerians. After that they were always under foreign rule. They still lasted pretty much considering they were under foreign rule for more than 1000 years.
 

Midas

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
4,129
Scandinavia, Balkans, Anatolia, Hatay
All the Indo-European civilisations in Anatolia didn't have an extreme important culture except the Hittites and the Mitanni. Mitanni ofcourse weren't IE but their ruling class was said to be Indian or Indid speaking and their religion was similar to the Indian one.
Lydians, Lycians, Carians? They had a very fine culture. Lydia was one of the two super powers alongside Persia at some point. As for the Mitanni, they had an Indo-Aryan aristocracy, the people were Hurrians (non-Indo-European, non-Semitic).
 

Midas

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
4,129
Scandinavia, Balkans, Anatolia, Hatay
According to Herodotus Lycians came from Crete?
Yes, but it doesn't make sense. Lycians were Luwian speaking people. West Anatolian geneologies are very confusing and mixed up, so don't take things for granted.
 

Efendi

Ad Honoris
Jul 2009
12,418
Anatolia
Yes, but it doesn't make sense. Lycians were Luwian speaking people. West Anatolian geneologies are very confusing and mixed up, so don't take things for granted.
Who knows their landlords were from Crete, when they captured the land, their descendant spoke the native language.
 

Midas

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
4,129
Scandinavia, Balkans, Anatolia, Hatay
Who knows their landlords were from Crete, when they captured the land, their descendant spoke the native language.
Yes it could be like that. Besides, Cretans did colonize the western coast of Anatolia in the bronze age e.g Miletus.
 
Nov 2013
842
Lykaonia
Comparing the ancient traditions and what some or maybe also modern established theories say does many things not make sense. That was also my point where myself cant take everything of modern theories of where and when.

According also to the ancient historians was the Pelasgians autochthonus and envolving in Arcadia from a nearly totally mountainous wild lifestyle (nothing to do with Anatolia nor with agriculture called also proselenes - being there before the moon exist to mark howold they was in historical times) into civilised people, also there was according to the legend the very first city founded Lycosoura but also the very first settlement in otheer lands , Italy which some tribes where the later historical greek colonists met there thad their roots on those settlers from Arcadia. Its not only Pelasgians and Arcadia and the ancient oral and writen traitions about. If myself check out many things didnt fit and as myself wrote before modern explanations dont are enough personally for me to fully accept them. I could found about some of them different explanations out of my mind who could pass also giving another direction how things happened and why.

Also another example the Kouretes was the Aetolians in older times , read that from an ancient source but dont hold exactly the details about nor I remember exactly , its another connection with Crete which could show a direct connection from the Minoans with mainland Greece.

About what myself mean when writing Pelasgians not much more or less again than myself understand from the ancient writings, in our days reduced to just a pre greek tribe which spoke a barbarian tongue back than the ancestors of the Greeks themselfes , the first peoplewho unite Greece under a mythical kingdom and colonise not only the greek penninsula but also the Caucasus, the mediteranean, very possible south Anatolia , Italy the iberian penninsula and other places . Them where the hellenic generacames out from not out my own wishful thinking but according the ancient historians and writers themself. Even when in theclassical times they see the remaining Pelasgians not as Greeks they accept their roots from the Pelasgians, Arcadia being the birthplace of them when they later called Arcadians and also Athenians and a big part of Ionians, Aeolians the Peloponnes Thessaly and Epirus had its roots on that population when the other Hellenes came out also from the Pelasgians but sepperate of them to absorb them when they get stronger(the seperation happened after theflood of Deucalion and thats also where coming out of Pelasgians the descedants of Deucalion sepperate of them to absorb and "hellenise" them later)...

So here we will not agree Midas cause so far I know archeology hasnt make some signifficant evolution on that cases nor linguistically is much known despite a text on the net that is called pelasgian (dont know if it really is nor am I an expert) has acoording to my modest knowledge many words inside it that are for us simply greek words. Myself understand your position and how can such a discussion seriously continue, its sad that the standarts modern science move into arent at this time enough to analyse on another basis with facts also outside the ancient writings about them. For a long time myself didnt knew nearly nothing about them also accept the pre Greeks population theory but the ancient texts deliver us at their majority a very different picture . Last but not least myself enjoy your posts from the very beginning and the also closed thread about ancient Epirots where you give some facts about was also the very first contact with the phorum after it follows my registration :)
 
Last edited:
Jul 2014
1,834
Yes
Interesting subject

Why should Turks feel any cultural connections with Indigenous Anatolians? They didn't exist anyway when the Seljuks conquered Anatolia. They were already fully Hellenized by Alexanders empire. Turks do appreciate their pre-islamic roots. They are proud about Gökturks, Huns and Pre-Islamic Turkic empires. If Turks are just Turkicized Greeks why are they genetically closer to Kurds , Caucasian peoples, Azeris and Persians with significant Turkic admixture? Greeks rarely cluster with Turks in genetics. They cluster mostly with Southern Italians and Albanians. Turks mostly cluster with Caucasians and Azeris
http://historum.com/middle-eastern-...ians-submitted-so-easily-mongoloid-turks.html
 

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