Was Ancient Greece essentially a Middle Eastern civilization?

Sep 2015
351
Greece
I hope, I understood your question right and gave some perspective..
Thanks for the answer.I think you 've covered me.
But I would also like to ask ,what are your thoughts on their language and the formation of its dialects.Were they formed outside of Greece and introduced with waves of invasions ( maybe Dorian?) or did they emerge inside Greece by mixings with locals(again doesnt Dorian perplexe things?).
It's all a bit jumbled in my head :)
 

Midas

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
4,129
Scandinavia, Balkans, Anatolia, Hatay
Thanks for the answer.I think you 've covered me.
But I would also like to ask ,what are your thoughts on their language and the formation of its dialects.Were they formed outside of Greece and introduced with waves of invasions ( maybe Dorian?) or did they emerge inside Greece by mixings with locals(again doesnt Dorian perplexe things?).
It's all a bit jumbled in my head :)
There is some silly notion expressed by scholars in the beginning of the 20th century and that some few (yet not experts in Greek) still insist to repeat, that the Dorians came from outside Greece. It is not the case and it is questionable whether the was a Dorian invasion. Karamitrou-Mentesidi has been successful on showing that those groups were nomadic populations within Greece, that moved from south to north and then back again, but having their ultimate origin in southern Greece before 1500 BC.

Generally, Greek was formed inside Greece, not outside it. The bulk of Proto-Indo-European speakers who settled in northern Greece, south Albania (around the Prespa lakes) and also Thessaly split into proto-Greeks, proto-Phrygians (Bryges), proto-Armenians and probably to some other languages that didn't make it.

You can take a look at this article: Palaeolexicon - The Greek language and its speakers
 
DNA reveals origin of Greece's ancient Minoan culture - BBC News

Europe's first advanced civilisation was local in origin and not imported from elsewhere, this study says.
Analysis of DNA from ancient remains on the Greek island of Crete suggests the Minoans were indigenous Europeans, shedding new light on a debate over the provenance of this ancient culture.
Scholars have variously argued the Bronze Age civilisation arrived from Africa, Anatolia or the Middle East.
Alright, we get it. Greece was the most sophisticated and civilized area in all of history and every one east of them was a savage. Now let's just ignore the fact that Minoans were holders of the Haplogroup J2 (which is Near Eastern) and that should prove your Greek supremacy. :)
 
Oct 2018
9
48313
If you ask the Greeks of our time, no.

If you ask the Greeks of Plato's time, by Hades NO!

There a difference between being a part of and influencing of.

Greek and by extension the whole Peloponnese was a center of influence through out the whole of the Mediterranean. Greek influence was felt from Sicily to Persepolis and Babylon and from Bulgaria to Axom. And since they lie in Europe by definition the answer to the question is no.
If ottomans and arabs didnt invade the middle east while greeks occupied countries like lebonan, iraq, syria, jordan and turkey, the old map fpr almost thousand years had greek names amd influences. Just like other countries people migrated to those countries and settled. Which means the greek influence and ethnicity would be large. the Greek language would be expanded like spanish, Arabic, romance, and germanic. My cousins and I took a DNA test and we all had Greek Roman in the 20 to 30 percentile and Eastern caucasian from the turkish region which at one point in time had cities with greek names. Rumor has it that middle easterns took ideas from the ottomans when in reality ottomans took it from the greeks. Mediterranean people and middle eastern people share a lot in common and history proves it, for a 1000 years those regions were governed and influenced by greek roman governments. Just search the old map. The greek history has been forgotten. The middle east only mentions ottomans, arabs, and persians and never mentions the greek roman times. 1000 years is a lot of influence. Arabs came from the arabian peninsula. At that time those regions around the mesopotamian cities like babylon and ninva after the fall persians didnt reign for long because the greeks and romans took it and stayed a long time before the arab militants amd ottomans took control and arabianized the whole region alsp iraq and other middle eastern countries became countries not to long ago, iraq was established as a country in the 30s
 

Theodoric

Ad Honorem
Mar 2012
2,549
This is not a troll question or some anti-Greek thread, but it just got me thinking. Aren't the Ancient Greeks essentially a middle eastern civilization. Much of their history takes place in the middle east, Ancient Greece has a lot of influences from near east civilizations such as Egypt, Phoenicia, Hittites, Assyrians, and they were the main trading partners of Greeks. I don't know much about the Minoans or Mycenaeans, but weren't the Minoans influenced by Mesopotamia and Egypt and Crete is almost close to Egypt and the Levant. So is Ancient Greece technically more Middle Eastern than it is European? And Europeans basically got their culture from Rome, who in turn copied from Greece.
The Hittites weren't Middle Eastern either (actually distant cousins of the Greeks); they were a completely unrelated civilization with even less cultural relationship to the Middle Eastern civilizations than the classical Greeks.
The Egyptians weren't really related either.

I am aware both countries fall onto modern maps of the "Middle East" but this wouldn't have been applicable in ancient times.
 
Oct 2018
9
48313
The Hittites weren't Middle Eastern either (actually distant cousins of the Greeks); they were a completely unrelated civilization with even less cultural relationship to the Middle Eastern civilizations than the classical Greeks.
The Egyptians weren't really related either.

I am aware both countries fall onto modern maps of the "Middle East" but this wouldn't have been applicable in ancient times.
Arabs didnt exist around these areas around the Greek times and Assyrian times, they all came from the Arabian peninsula and today they succeeded and control all of middle east. They call it indo European tribes for a reason they came from the regions of Anatolia modern day Turkey and the caucas Mountains and migrated towards europe and far east and in a twisted way came back 1000s of years later to conquer . Dont let the Greek and Persian war confuse you, I am talking 1000s of years before that, a indo European family branched off. Greeks are an ancient ethnicity that roots to the first endo family. Persians, Greeks, Armenians, and Albanians(Illyrians) have a lot of historical ties and had many influences around that region if you go back thousands of years ago. The Parathians were an ancient Persian tribe that lived in these regions as well. Anatolia was conquered by many civilizations the hitties, Assyrians, Greeks, Armenians, Romans, Persians, and so on. Greeks and Romans had a greater influence in these countries, 1000 years is a lot. If Arabs didnt invade these areas including syria, Iraq, Jordan, AND lebanon, Greeks would have a big influence and the greek language would've branched to other languages in the middle east. Those Regions were the home of the Assyrians, Babylonians, and Phoenicians till the Greeks, Persians and Romans took over. Now the Arabian tribes that took over influence the regions. Just look at the old map from 600BC to 400AD.
 
Last edited:
Oct 2018
9
48313
The Hittites weren't Middle Eastern either (actually distant cousins of the Greeks); they were a completely unrelated civilization with even less cultural relationship to the Middle Eastern civilizations than the classical Greeks.
The Egyptians weren't really related either.

I am aware both countries fall onto modern maps of the "Middle East" but this wouldn't have been applicable in ancient times.
Arabs didnt exist around these areas around the Greek times and Assyrian times, they all came from the Arabian peninsula and today they succeeded and control all of middle east. They call it indo European tribes for a reason they came from the regions of Anatolia modern day Turkey and the caucas Mountains and migrated towards europe and far east and in a twisted way came back 1000s of years later to conquer . Dont let the Greek and Persian war confuse you, I am talking 1000s of years before that, a indo European family branched off. Greeks are an ancient ethnicity that roots to the first endo family. Persians, Greeks, Armenians, and Albanians(Illyrians) have a lot of historical ties and had many influences around that region if you go back thousands of years ago. The Parathians were an ancient Persian tribe that lived in these regions as well. Anatolia was conquered by many civilizations the hitties, Assyrians, Greeks, Armenians, Romans, Persians, and so on. Greeks and Romans had a greater influence in these countries, 1000 years is a lot. If Arabs didnt invade these areas including syria, Iraq, Jordan, AND lebanon, Greeks would have a big influence and the greek language would've branched to other languages in the middle east. Those Regions were the home of the Assyrians, Babylonians, and Phoenicians till the Greeks, Persians and Romans took over. Now the Arabian tribes that took over influence the regions. Just look at the old map from 600BC to 400AD.
 
Oct 2018
9
48313
? Could you clarify a bit.
Persians as many caucus families had regions that expanded all the way to Turkey not just Iran. Persia was not a border country. These indo Euro families come from the caucus regions that migrated west into Europe and East into india. kurdish people, slavic people, Armenians, Persians, Greeks, and their neighboring civilizations like Assyrians, Babylonians, and Phoenicians lived near each other. Everyone wants to play the oh that is my land not yours, to be honest they all had part around those regions and sometime somewhere in the past all come from one tribe that split into two, three, four, and so on. Research shows indo family languages link.
 

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