Was Andalusia better run than the rest of Islamic Iberia?

Nov 2013
731
Texas
While a case could be made that other cities and areas (like Toledo) were well run; it seems the overwhelming cultural merit of Al-Andalus came from Andalusia


There were so many internal divisions and variations in Islamic Iberia; I understand the question might be difficult to answer, but I wonder if Andalusia was the most cultivated of the provinces for the following reasons:

A: Strongest ARab influences

B: That Andalusia was arguably the cultural capital of Iberia before Al-Andalus

C: As for Grenada, well, that was part of Andalusia too.......

D: That Andalusia and Grenada were closest to Morrocco

To me, it's almost as if Andalusia should be treated as something seperate from the rest of Islamic Iberia (which at times it was....)
 

johnincornwall

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
7,849
Cornwall
There was no Province called Andalusia, that is a modern thing.

Islamic Iberia spent periods being an Emirate with different regional hierarchies, a Caliphate with 3 governor areas, 3 splits into Taifas with many different kingdoms all over, or a Province of the Almoravid and Almohad Empires called Al Andalus - which meant all their empire in Spain, not just Andalusia. Here is a bit about Taifas

 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,790
Spain
By other side words can induce confusion.. one word is Al-Andalus (whose origin is arabic language) and other word is Andalucía (that came from Vandalucia, lands of Vandals. Saint Isidore said Andalucia means Land of VAndals (one of the barbarian tribes settled in Hispania).
 
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johnincornwall

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
7,849
Cornwall
By other side words can induce confusion.. one word is Al-Andalus (whose origin is arabic language) and other word is Andalucía (that came from Vandalucia, lands of Vandals. Saint Isidore said Andalucia means Land of VAndals (one of the barbarian tribes settled in Hispania).
Although it would make more sense if he called Ifriqiya 'Land of the Vandals'. So not sure about that one. They were only in 'Spain' about 21 years after all. 200 years before Isodoro was around in Seville.
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,790
Spain
Although it would make more sense if he called Ifriqiya 'Land of the Vandals'. So not sure about that one. They were only in 'Spain' about 21 years after all. 200 years before Isodoro was around in Seville.


John you are right again. . Vandals weren´t so much time in Spain....Suebi were around 150 years.... maybe 180... Goths around 300 years (as Kingdom as people they fusioned with Hispani and Roman)... but Vandals? As you well say.. only 20 years!!!!

But according with this page.. word andalusia could have three origin:

Land of Vandals.. VAndalucia.... problems? a Lot...as John well said.. Vandals only were in Andalucia... 20 years!!

Other origin is the Gothic word...Landahlauts that it is the name Goths used to name Southern Spain... that means.. "lands of lot" Problem? Yes... we have not discovered any document, paper, record with the word "Landahlauts"....

The other origin of the word: Andalucia comes from Atlanticum, Atlantis... Greek thought Atlantida was in Southern Spain... So from Atlanticum to Atlantis to Al Andalus.... Sincerely... I can´t see but who knows...

Because Andalucia is the castilian version of al-Andalusiya and al-Andalusiya came from Al-Andalus but Al Andalus means nothing in arab.. it is a foreigner word used by arabs... so...or Vandals, or Goths or Greek origin of the word....or other origin...
 

johnincornwall

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
7,849
Cornwall
Interesting Martin. The interaction between arabic and latin-based Castillian is quite vast and indicative of an age of much closer contact and integration than today. I've said it many times, but a lot of people's vision today of the medieval world is coloured by the crusades and the crusading mentality.
 
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martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,790
Spain
Interesting Martin. The interaction between arabic and latin-based Castillian is quite vast and indicative of an age of much closer contact and integration than today. I've said it many times, but a lot of people's vision today of the medieval world is coloured by the crusades and the crusading mentality.

I agree.. and still more.. Our historical vision is based on romanticism and nationalism.... from 19th Century... in everything...we can´t imagine the medieval mind... and their social relations as worked in the each day real life.

Although it is truth.. there was a "crusade" spirit.... not only in Christian countries but in Islamic world too.... the daily relations were (for sure) higher (In Spain, Balkan, Palestine etc) and more intense than military campaigns. At least till late 15th Century.
 
Aug 2019
571
North
John you are right again. . Vandals weren´t so much time in Spain....Suebi were around 150 years.... maybe 180... Goths around 300 years (as Kingdom as people they fusioned with Hispani and Roman)... but Vandals? As you well say.. only 20 years!!!!

But according with this page.. word andalusia could have three origin:

Land of Vandals.. VAndalucia.... problems? a Lot...as John well said.. Vandals only were in Andalucia... 20 years!!

Other origin is the Gothic word...Landahlauts that it is the name Goths used to name Southern Spain... that means.. "lands of lot" Problem? Yes... we have not discovered any document, paper, record with the word "Landahlauts"....

The other origin of the word: Andalucia comes from Atlanticum, Atlantis... Greek thought Atlantida was in Southern Spain... So from Atlanticum to Atlantis to Al Andalus.... Sincerely... I can´t see but who knows...

Because Andalucia is the castilian version of al-Andalusiya and al-Andalusiya came from Al-Andalus but Al Andalus means nothing in arab.. it is a foreigner word used by arabs... so...or Vandals, or Goths or Greek origin of the word....or other origin...
From which, specifically vandals or goths, did andalusia benefit the most? To my mind, it doesn't matter whether the post- invasion period lasted 20 or 300 years. For example, the turks "ran" macedonia for 500 years, yet they didn't left anything memorable.
 

johnincornwall

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
7,849
Cornwall
From which, specifically vandals or goths, did andalusia benefit the most? To my mind, it doesn't matter whether the post- invasion period lasted 20 or 300 years. For example, the turks "ran" macedonia for 500 years, yet they didn't left anything memorable.
You mean Iberia or Hispania presumably? Not sure I would describe either as a benefit to be honest.

The Vandals passed through briefly on their way to setting up an Empire in Africa, decimated by the Roman Army composed of Walia's Visigoths 10 years earlier and taking with them some other defecting Visigoths when they went. Not sure any finca-owners where they stayed would have described them as a benefit!

You could argue that the Visigoths stabilised a collapsing province into their kingdom of Toledo (as we call it). But were so oppressive, dictatorial, aloof, increasingly disfunctional, fragmented and basically bloody that the general population was glad to see the back of them. Despite romantic notions of 3 or 400 years later!
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,790
Spain
You mean Iberia or Hispania presumably? Not sure I would describe either as a benefit to be honest.

The Vandals passed through briefly on their way to setting up an Empire in Africa, decimated by the Roman Army composed of Walia's Visigoths 10 years earlier and taking with them some other defecting Visigoths when they went. Not sure any finca-owners where they stayed would have described them as a benefit!

You could argue that the Visigoths stabilised a collapsing province into their kingdom of Toledo (as we call it). But were so oppressive, dictatorial, aloof, increasingly disfunctional, fragmented and basically bloody that the general population was glad to see the back of them. Despite romantic notions of 3 or 400 years later!

I agree with John.. but i would add two very important facts in history of Spain during Goths time:

1st: Goths became Spain in a Catholic Country (Spain was not Catholic.. as you well know John.. Spain was "Priscillianist" and Arrian before being Catholic... So I would say Goths were very important what´s today is Spain (as a 2.000 years evolution).

2nd: The Councils of Toledo.... that unified the country (Peninsula) from a religious point of view

As you well know.. Recaredo´s Conversion...