Was the Latin mass used in areas now Orthodox or Muslim?

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,530
My understanding was that the Latin mass was required in most cases by the Roman Catholic Church until about 1962. It was also probably a cause of the Reformation in countries that did speak a Latin derived language. My understanding is that services were mostly in Greek in the Byzantine Empire before the schism. What about in Syria, Egypt, etc. before they became majority Muslim?
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,793
Republika Srpska
The services were in native languages AFAIK. Keep in mind that many churches in the East were those that refused the decisions of Chalcedon and were thus not a part of the wider Church community.
 

Tulun

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
3,899
Western Eurasia
Greek or Syraic in Syria, in Egypt Greek or Coptic, though I don't know if transition to Coptic liturgical language (from Greek) started before or after the muslim conquest? I think Latin was only used in the Maghreb, Chartage and so.
 

Code Blue

Ad Honorem
Feb 2015
4,441
Caribbean
It was also probably a cause of the Reformation in countries that did speak a Latin derived language.
My understanding of the root cause of the Reformation was the gap between the Bible and Papal doctrine. The so called "95 thesis" is actually Disputation on the Power of Indulgences - pointing out that in the Bible salvation is a gift from God, not a service to be sold by priests. Without that gap between the Bible and the doctrine, the invention of the printing press and the efforts to translate the Bible into the various languages would have run into nothing that needed "reform."
 
Sep 2019
403
Slovenia
In Antioch and Syria in 4. century church service was already so much different from Roman or Latin rite that you can see it from the construction of the church buildings. As church buildings they both used basilicas. At the Latin mass, the priest was turned toward the people ( later not anymore, until Vatican II and Novus ordo mass of pope Montini ), the altar was at the same height as the church nave, the altar stood in front of the raised choir, at the bottom of the choir bishop was sitting, he was surrounded by his priests which were sitting on a semicircular bench at the bow of the abside.

In Syria Greek language was used. Until 370 Greek language was used at mass sometimes also in Rome and Italy. The altar was inside the abside. Priest was turned with his back toward the people. During the fisrt part of the mass which included preaching the priests were standing on a special stage at the middle of the chucrh's nave.

History of the Church, book 1, page 307/308, published in Ljubljana in 1988.
 

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,530
There were popes from the neareast and so on where they didn't use the Latin mass. So when did the Latin mass become required in the Catholic Church? I would assume it was a contributing factor in the Reformation that people who spoke Germanic languages mostly could not understand Latin.
 

Code Blue

Ad Honorem
Feb 2015
4,441
Caribbean
There were popes from the neareast and so on where they didn't use the Latin mass. So when did the Latin mass become required in the Catholic Church? I would assume it was a contributing factor in the Reformation that people who spoke Germanic languages mostly could not understand Latin.
Perhaps, but a much lesser or secondary cause, imo.

Based on my own experience: baptism, first communion, confession, marriage, last rites and perhaps most important, catechism class, were in English. Only the mass was in Latin and I never saw a Bible. So, the idea that salvation was through the church and by works came through loud and clear; while the idea that "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8-9) was unheard in any language.

Just as an anecdote, on a Christmas Eve some years ago, my wife found a Catholic TV station with the mass from St. Peter's Basilica, and asked if I wanted to listen for a while. I did. She asked if I understood what the Pope was saying, and I old her, yes. She asked what language that is, and I said Latin. Too many familiar words, too many other masses, too many Latin hymns sung. Even 500 years ago, I suspect the average European was a better polyglot than I am.
 
Sep 2019
403
Slovenia
@betgo in 4th century Latin language became official in the west, simply because it was official in western Roman empire. Church was still one until 1054 when you had west-east split. I think already in the case against Peter Waldo it was decided by the Roman church that Bible can not be translated in other languages and should not be read by laypeople. Between 1170–80 Waldo commissioned a cleric from Lyon to translate the New testament into the vernacular "Romance" (Franco-Provencal). He is credited with providing to Europe the first translation of the Bible in a 'modern tongue' outside of Latin. Roman missal was made official in 1570 by pope Pius V. He promulgated the 1570 Roman Missal, making it mandatory throughout the Latin Church, except in places with missals from before 1370. Changes followed not before Vatican II.


 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,793
Republika Srpska
Also in the 9th century a Slavic monk only known as Crnorizac Hrabar (the Brave Monk) wrote a text opposing the claims of some that only Hebrew, Greek and Latin can be recognized. Hrabar argued that the Slavic language is just as legitimate for conducting services.
 
  • Like
Reactions: At Each Kilometer

At Each Kilometer

Ad Honorem
Sep 2012
4,062
Bulgaria
Old Church Slavonic OCS is a literary language which developed from the language used by St Cyril and Methodius, IXth century eastern roman missionaries to translate the Bible. The mission of the brothers in Moravia had great success among Slavs in part because they used the people's native language rather than Latin or Greek. Later they traveled to Rome and Pope Adrian II solemnly blessed the glagolitic alphabet created by them, as well as books written in the new alphabet. Adrian II ordered for solemn services in OCS to be held in Roman basilicas. Sometime during the next century a new alphabet appeared from glagolitic which was known as cyrillic and named after St Cyril, though it was possibly invented by St Climent of Ohrid, used to write the Old Church Slavonic language and was later adapted for other languages.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AnonymousProfesor