Was the Yuan militarily Chinese by the 1270s

Nov 2014
409
ph
#1
Was the Yuan militarily Chinese by the time of its final in invasion of the Southern Song? By that I mean that it was basically an infantry based army at that point athatvused tactics and strategies that would have been familiar to Song military officers by that time, so by the time of the final invasion of the Song it was basically two Chinese armies fighting against each other.
 
May 2009
1,306
#2
Conquest of the Sung required conventional warfare using infantry, navy, and siege engineers, so yeah it was certainly more like a Chinese army than a Mongol army. But it was a Chinese army with the resources and tech of many other nations at its disposal, so it couldn't really be called standard. For example Persian engineers were called in at one point to break a five-year siege at Xiangyang. They constructed a giant "super-mangonel" and helped turn the tide. And of course they had a great variety of unit types at their disposal-- Mongol, Jurchen, and Tangut cavalry, Muslim and Chinese siege engineers, early gunpowder and fire weapons, the Jin navy, Chinese infantry, etc.
 
Last edited:
Feb 2018
212
US
#3
Yeah the Yuan army which conquered the Song was definitely a sophisticated combined arms force.

It also does not seem like Kublai had the requisite number of Mongol/steppe cavalry after the splintering of the khanates to conduct a 'mongol style campaign' (i,e like 1258) even if he had wished to. When Bayan faced Kaidu in central asia (after the Song war), he had to adopt a defensive posture and was heavily limited by logistical concerns from campaigning aggressively in the Tarim Basin. This implies that Kaidu, operating out of Central Asia, had a significant cavalry advantage. The Yuan did not seem to have the option of conducting the deep steppe invasions like Jebe and Subutai did during earlier generations.
 
May 2009
1,306
#4
Good point. Khubilai became boxed in after a certain point and couldnt really expand anywhere but overseas, and that forced him to rely heavily on Chinese and Korean conscripts, which pretty much doomed him to failure since they didn't share the Mongol's lust for world domination.
 
Aug 2015
1,850
Los Angeles
#5
Can we use the word Han if we are describing Chinese people of Han ethnicity? Or for that matter, differentiate between Northern Han and Southerners/Nanman?

Are Yuan subjects not Chinese?