Was there a realistic way for Germany to quickly lose WWI?

Mar 2019
106
Victoria, Australia
#11
Mhmm. Good question. I'm not sure. I suppose that they could then use German Railways to their own use. But the german would surely have sabotaged them prior to their retreat.

I'm also not sure if there was any defensive measures on the Oder.
 
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pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
8,783
#12
That's possible Pugsville. But I do not see the Russians being able to break through the Carpathian mountains and then force the Austro-Hungarians into defeat.

The Austro-Hungarian main problem was offensives, which it regularly failed to achieve to a capable level or comparable level to that of the Germans. However, they did prove themselves very well, especially against the Italians, to defend themselves even in poor terrain against superior numbers. It seems to me that the Russians may not have been able to defeat the Austro-Hungarians so quickly or so easily.
Yeah it's not without problems. But soem sort of collaspe of Austria Hungray is much more likley. Engineering a plausible what if that gets teh Russians of the capathians is a tall order but i wuld suggest it;s most likely the best line to examine for a quick victory by the Entente.
 
Mar 2019
106
Victoria, Australia
#13
Alternatively, the only other scenario would be for the russians to utilize their superior numbers by extending the line beyond what Austria-Hungary and Germany can man. They could do this by driving the line between the two nations near Krakow (or Cracow) and going into moravia. There is little forts and rivers there and few mountains to block an attack or to give a good defensive positions to the Austrians. Then, they could push either north and take Bohemia or drive south to Vienna. But that would drastically increase the lines.

This is sometimes that Generals at the time probably never would have done. Most believe in reducing the lines instead of increasing it.

Not to mention that it makes the Russian army particularly prone to encirclement if they do lose.
 
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Mar 2019
106
Victoria, Australia
#14
Outside of that, I think the russians are really the only entente power capable of knocking out World war 1 early. At least not without outlandish scenarions like italy attacking Austria-Hungary in 1914 or the serbians attacking and capturing Sarajevo....
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
17,695
SoCal
#15
Alternatively, the only other scenario would be for the russians to utilize their superior numbers by extending the line beyond what Austria-Hungary and Germany can man. They could do this by driving the line between the two nations near Krakow (or Cracow) and going into moravia. There is little forts and rivers there and few mountains to block an attack or to give a good defensive positions to the Austrians. Then, they could push either north and take Bohemia or drive south to Vienna. But that would drastically increase the lines.

This is sometimes that Generals at the time probably never would have done. Most believe in reducing the lines instead of increasing it.

Not to mention that it makes the Russian army particularly prone to encirclement if they do lose.
Yeah, your proposal here is going to result in a huge salient which will leave the Russians extremely vulnerable.
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
8,783
#16
Alternatively, the only other scenario would be for the russians to utilize their superior numbers by extending the line beyond what Austria-Hungary and Germany can man. They could do this by driving the line between the two nations near Krakow (or Cracow) and going into moravia. There is little forts and rivers there and few mountains to block an attack or to give a good defensive positions to the Austrians. Then, they could push either north and take Bohemia or drive south to Vienna. But that would drastically increase the lines.
I don;t think the logistical support is terribly good for major operations extending that way.

I got the massive eastern front wargame "1914 Twilight in the East" and massive offensives in central Poland towards the west are logistically hard, Galicia much easier.


1914: Twilight in the East
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
17,695
SoCal
#17
I don;t think the logistical support is terribly good for major operations extending that way.

I got the massive eastern front wargame "1914 Twilight in the East" and massive offensives in central Poland towards the west are logistically hard, Galicia much easier.


1914: Twilight in the East
Is Galicia much easier due to Austria-Hungary's defenses being much weaker than those of Germany?
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
8,783
#18
Is Galicia much easier due to Austria-Hungary's defenses being much weaker than those of Germany?
No simple logistical network is much greater in Galicia, more rail lines, can support much greater Russian forces. Austrian Hungarian defenses an dforces are greater than German , but it's hard to attack with much stronger forces in Est Prussia (than historically) due to supply,

Defences ? fortress are not a huge factor. comes down to how many defenders v attackers and the terrain.
 
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pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
8,783
#20
OK.

Also, a Russian attack on Galicia instead of East Prussia won't cause the French to lose in 1914--will it?
The Main Russian attack was in Gallica, The Germans sent a couple corps east after the Russians laucnhed a couple of armies at East Prussia but I odubt that a couple of corps if they remained would of swung the western Front, the wheeling flank logistical concerns mean the two corps could not have been there to turn the Battle of the Marne in 1914.
 
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