Water supply and aqueducts

Feb 2018
26
Juno Beach, Fl
#21
Yeah bro I was going to debate him but I realized that this person is probably only here to derail the topic and get the thread locked. I mean I realized how much of an ameteur he was when he claimed most of Africans lived as hunter gatherers without changing in 60,000 years which I doubt any academic source with peer review would back up so yeah a waste of time

Btw do you have those quotes I’m trying to collect as much primary sources on visitors to African kingdoms as I can.

Oddly enough I found a book years back in my college library that had descriptive of the Swahili states by the Portuguese when they first visited them and how they were in awe at the beauty and wealth of Zanzibar/Swahili culture. The descriptions were so romantic and over the top I wish I had copied it down, sadly I’ve never been able to find them again....

Anyway if you got some stuff PM me .... thanks
Hey Bro!
You have Not refuted my Claim that sub-Saharans live app the same in 1900 as they did 60,000 years ago.

That's why you haven't "Debated me"
That and ALL The other info I posted that NO one has answered. Too much to even recount. All WHIFFS.

Apparently as well, you don't even know how to use Google... or ignore it in favor of ethnic folklore.
The "Portugese" were hardly the first to come upon the 'untocuhed/native' Swahili coast!
NOT even close.
Yikes!
Others were there hundreds/a Thousand+ years previous and implanted some technologies, crops, etc.

Ever heard of 'Wikipedia,' or do you only get your info from 'Afro Studies' dept/books?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swahili_coast#History
History

Parts of the area that are today considered Swahili Coast were known as Azania or Zingion in the Greco-Roman era, and as Zanj or Zinj in Middle Eastern, Chinese and Indian literature from the 7th to the 14th century [2][3].

Archaeological evidences of small Hindu settlements from India have been found from 2nd century AD mainly in the Swahili coast of Zanzibar, Kenya, Zimbabwe and Madagascar [4][5]. Historical documents including the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea and works by Ibn Battuta describe the society, culture, and economy of the Swahili Coast at various points in its history.

The rise of the Swahili Coast city-states can be largely attributed to the region's extensive participation in a trade network that spanned the Indian Ocean.[6][7] Some Swahili coast exports included sorghums, millets, sesame, coconut oil, vinegar, copra, dried fish, hardwoods, ebony, mangrove boats, sisal, coir, rubber, rock crystal, tobacco, carved doors and chests, forged iron, incense, myrrh, gums and resins, gold, copper, iron, domestic and field slaves, and concubines..... Evidence for Indian Ocean trade includes the presence of pot sherds on coastal archaeological sites that can be traced back to China and India.[8]

A product of the Multi-Cultured environment of the Swahili Coast was the development of the Swahili language, a fundamentally Bantu language that contains a number of Arabic [9] and Hindu [10] loanwords due to the significant trade with Arab and India [5].

..... The city of Kilwa thrived because of the gold trade until the Portuguese arrived on the Eastern coast of Africa. The Portuguese wanted to take control of the gold trade. In order to take control of the gold trade the Portuguese attacked the settlements on the Swahili coast.[15] The Portuguese looted the city of Kilwa in 1505 in order to take the gold that was in the city.[16] The city of Kilwa is now in ruins.

The kingdoms on the Swahili coast rose because of the trade networks in which they were involved, but they began to decline, possibly in part because of colonization by the Portuguese, [17] who were interested in controlling the trade markets on the Swahili coast.[17] Since the Portuguese took over the trade markets the kingdoms were not able to trade as much as before and as a result began to decline....​


Again, most of these advanced areas were Post-Contact trade routes, not Native afro cultures. Once they left/trading stopped, it was back in the crapper.
In this case, it was known to Greco-Roman and Asian civilizations well before that, and you had Indian settlements up and down the Swahili coast as early as the Second Century.
`
 
Last edited:

Ighayere

Ad Honorem
Jul 2012
2,514
Benin City, Nigeria
#22
Yeah bro I was going to debate him but I realized that this person is probably only here to derail the topic and get the thread locked. I mean I realized how much of an ameteur he was when he claimed most of Africans lived as hunter gatherers without changing in 60,000 years which I doubt any academic source with peer review would back up so yeah a waste of time

Btw do you have those quotes I’m trying to collect as much primary sources on visitors to African kingdoms as I can.

Oddly enough I found a book years back in my college library that had descriptive of the Swahili states by the Portuguese when they first visited them and how they were in awe at the beauty and wealth of Zanzibar/Swahili culture. The descriptions were so romantic and over the top I wish I had copied it down, sadly I’ve never been able to find them again....

Anyway if you got some stuff PM me .... thanks
Sure. I'll compile some of the more interesting quotes about Asante that I remember and still have access to in a few days and send you a PM then.
 
Mar 2012
337
#23
Here is something interesting I found online

The largest wide-array man made (or at least non natural) structure in the world is in fact an ancient terra formed systems of agricultural-aquaculture canals in Northwestern Botswana and Northeastern Namibia, north of the Kalahari Desert in Southern Africa

These canals are too evenly spaced over too large an area to be any kind of natural formation. Based on entry and exit points, it is readily apparent this system is a very large, controlled agronomy array and/or aquaculture system. Its age is defined by the overgrown nature of the canals, as well as some areas that are covered over with drift and sand erosion.

The entire complex covers an area about equal in size to the State of Arizona in the USA. The canals are an integrated system of apparent irrigation and agricultural (and probably aquaculture) design. The system is about 350 miles in width and about 300 miles in depth. (For the remnants still visible.) This system represents roughly 67 MILLION acres of sustainable agriculture. Given the sophistication of design, it is entirely plausible to assume an above average yield, i.e. feeding well over 90 persons per acre on an annual basis.


Earth Epochs


Interesting I haven’t read it all but I hope it’s legit
 
Jan 2018
39
Yopaw
#25
Here is something interesting I found online

The largest wide-array man made (or at least non natural) structure in the world is in fact an ancient terra formed systems of agricultural-aquaculture canals in Northwestern Botswana and Northeastern Namibia, north of the Kalahari Desert in Southern Africa

These canals are too evenly spaced over too large an area to be any kind of natural formation. Based on entry and exit points, it is readily apparent this system is a very large, controlled agronomy array and/or aquaculture system. Its age is defined by the overgrown nature of the canals, as well as some areas that are covered over with drift and sand erosion.

The entire complex covers an area about equal in size to the State of Arizona in the USA. The canals are an integrated system of apparent irrigation and agricultural (and probably aquaculture) design. The system is about 350 miles in width and about 300 miles in depth. (For the remnants still visible.) This system represents roughly 67 MILLION acres of sustainable agriculture. Given the sophistication of design, it is entirely plausible to assume an above average yield, i.e. feeding well over 90 persons per acre on an annual basis.


Earth Epochs


Interesting I haven’t read it all but I hope it’s legit
The guy who make those claims, "John M. Jensen Jr.", see canals everywhere, even in prehistoric times. So I'm quite skeptic about his claims, plus he made an incorrect assumptions when he said that it's too large to be a natural phenomenon and that, I quote "this system was in fact providing food for an average of about 5 Billion people". Sorry, but it's very difficult to take that seriously.

Maybe it's true, but I would like to see another source. Thank you for sharing this though.
 
Nov 2018
74
West Covina
#26
I presented the picture NOW, and looking back as far as one can see.
There is no debate and no excuse for the ongoing/regular droughts in Ethiopia (and others) except backwardness.

As For the rest you say "isn't worth replying to"...
Clearly this is a Cop out, as I presented the undebatable big picture showing the Incredible Backwardness of sub-Sahara relative to Europe and Asia, even pre-colonially.
sub-Saharans were still 98% Hunter-gatherers thousands of Years after Rome and the Chinese Civil Servce system.
They lived in 1900 app the same a they did 60,000 years ago.
Hunter gatherers in huts.

There can be no answer. It's a Fact.
So you disingenuously tried dismissal.
You got Busted.
`
Most of Africa practiced agriculture be it pastoralism or Farming of vegetation 1540234045023.png 1-s2.0-S096098220902065X-gr3.jpg
 
Nov 2018
74
West Covina
#27
Pre-Colonial..
When Marco Polo came upon China (app 1300) he found, Silk, Porcelain, Astronomical records, a Civil service system, etc.

While even in 1900 sub-Saharans basically lived as they had 60,000 years earlier, when others left and became more advanced.
Many still do.
Hunter-gatherers.

2000 years ago Rome had Aqueducts and built a luxurious city (cities) with water for drinking, bathing, irrigating, despite arid conditions.

Meanwhile and until THIS century we hear/heard about "Droughts" Often despite Plentiful water in Africa.
ie
Water-rich Ethiopia is just STARTING to irrigate now!

Ethiopia - Wikipedia

Economy​
In spite of fast growth in recent years, GDP per capita is one of the Lowest in the world, and the economy faces a number of serious structural problems. However, with a focused investment in public infrastructure and industrial parks, Ethiopia's economy is addressing its structural problems to become a hub for light manufacturing in Africa.[130] Agricultural productivity remains low, and frequent Droughts still beset the country.[131]​
"Ethiopia is often Ironically referred to as the 'Water Tower' of Eastern Africa because of the many (14 majors) rivers that pour off the high tableland", including the Nile. "It also has the Greatest Water reserves in Africa, but few irrigation systems in place to use it.
Just 1% is used for power production and 1.5% for irrigation."[132] In recent years, however, Ethiopia has completed several major dams[133] for hydroelectricity production and irrigation. Ethiopia, despite Egypt's initial protest, is also in the process of constructing a 6000 MW and Africa's largest hydroelectric dam ( GERD dam) on the Nile river.[134]..."​​
Access to commodities such as fabrics, spices, and gold motivated a European quest for a faster means to reach South Asia. It was this search that led the

Portuguese
down the coast of West Africa to Sierra Leone in 1460. Due to several technological and cultural advantages, Portugal dominated world trade for nearly 200 years, from the fifteenth to the sixteenth century. While in the fifteenth century the rest of Europe was decimated by the Black Plague, Portugal was protected by its physical isolation. Additionally, Portugal had an unusually strong national identity, due to its natural geographic borders, allowing the pooling of the considerable economic resources necessary to fund these ambitious explorations. Additionally, Portugal’s extended contact with Islam, and therefore with its superior mathematical knowledge and sailing technologies, including sail shapes, hull designs, and maritime weaponry, resulted in a Portuguese fleet capable of negotiating the high Atlantic seas.


As a consequence, most of the West African coast was explored in the period from 1415 into the 1600s.

Preserved maps
from this period show a remarkably accurate understanding of the complicated coastline. African exports consisted primarily of gold,
ivory
, and pepper. However, more than 175,000 slaves were also taken to Europe and the Americas during this period. In 1600, with the involvement of the Dutch and English, the magnitude of the
slave trade
grew exponentially.


From the time of their arrival on the shores of Sierra Leone in 1460, and until their gradual decline as leaders in

world exploration
in the sixteenth century, the Portuguese had an ambiguous relationship with their African trading partners. Disembarking at
cities
that were as large, complex, and technologically advanced as Lisbon at the time, the Portuguese actually experienced far less culture shock than we might expect. In fact, they encountered urban centers in West Africa comparable to those back in Europe, governed by elaborate dynasties, organized around apprenticeship-based artistic guilds, and with agricultural systems capable of feeding their large populaces. Many African cities were even deemed to be larger, more hygienic, and better organized than those of Europe. Additionally, the Portuguese shared many beliefs about magic, the supernatural, and the treatment of illness with the African societies they encountered. Protective amulets in both cultures were considered medicinally valuable, and sickness in general was attributed to witchcraft.