Wellington 'Never Lost a Battle' - Why both sides annoy me

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
8,516
#31
I

Once Austria quitted the war, the other German states would be stunned and demoralized in varied extent. And the confidence of Prussia and Russia would effectively waver, questioning the possibility of continuing the war. With only Prussia, Russia and Britain at war, Napoleon certainly had a chance to survive the AD 1814 crisis!

The historical development in February 1814 proved that it might happen.
Disagree. Nothing could waver the determination of Russia and Prussia to see things through.

Austrians leaving the war would not have been enough, to give Napoleon a channce of defeating the Russians and Prussians.

And thy had ebnough strnegth to beat the French without the Austrians. In fact teh absence of Austrians troops may have made the campaign better run form the allied perspective.

Napoleon had no chance what so ever of surviving the 1814 campaign.
 
Mar 2016
768
Australia
#32
The one thing that always surprises me is the love that is shown for Napoleon; then and now. Then the French soldiers loved him, despite the fact that they had little reason to do so. Even today he is admired and respected by most. Of course outside of France, back in the 18th and 19th centuries, he was hated and despised as a warmonger: the Corsican Ogre.

I wonder which other figures were reviled outside their own countries, yet today are hailed as heroes or inspirational personalities? I wonder which modern day villains will be next century's heroes?
I think it comes down to a very basic and inherent desire in people: the desire for their country and their people to do great things and impress those around them. Napoleon may have lost, but before he did he elevated the French people to a level of power and glory that most people can only dream of and will never achieve. His sole desire in life was to make France great and powerful and respected. Sure, this was mostly done through war, but he achieved it, and two hundred years later we remember him and what he did, and probably will in two thousand years, just like we are still impressed by Alexander. Logic doesn't factor into it much, it's pure emotion: they did great things, and if they did it for our country, we admire them. It's very natural. If I was French I would admire Napoleon even more than I already do, and at the time my "country" was a colony of his greatest and most implacable foe.
 
Feb 2016
4,227
Japan
#33
The one thing that always surprises me is the love that is shown for Napoleon; then and now. Then the French soldiers loved him, despite the fact that they had little reason to do so. Even today he is admired and respected by most. Of course outside of France, back in the 18th and 19th centuries, he was hated and despised as a warmonger: the Corsican Ogre.

I wonder which other figures were reviled outside their own countries, yet today are hailed as heroes or inspirational personalities? I wonder which modern day villains will be next century's heroes?
I’m not sure if the “love” for him was permanent or widespread.
Certainly he was much beloved by his Imperial Guards, who he showed much affection for. Also he had a soft spot for gunners which I understood was a source of pride amongst the artillery.

However, he was not beloved by French catholic’s, the Vendeeans were unwilling members of any non-Royalist regime, conscription, huge losses and financial pressures made him unpopular with rank and filers and the people.
 
May 2018
614
Michigan
#34
The one thing that always surprises me is the love that is shown for Napoleon; then and now. Then the French soldiers loved him, despite the fact that they had little reason to do so. Even today he is admired and respected by most. Of course outside of France, back in the 18th and 19th centuries, he was hated and despised as a warmonger: the Corsican Ogre.

I wonder which other figures were reviled outside their own countries, yet today are hailed as heroes or inspirational personalities? I wonder which modern day villains will be next century's heroes?
If Julius Caesar were to somehow be transported from 4am on the Ides of March 44 B.C. to Washington, DC in 2019, I have a feeling that he would be President of the United States within a decade. If Napoleon Bonaparte were transported from St. Helena in 1820 to France in 2019, I have a feeling that Macron would be out of power within a month (assuming Napoleon's terminal condition is cured by modern medicine). If Arthur Wellesley somehow proclaimed his support for Boris Johnson, May's ministry would be over in a week. And if George Washington somehow ran for President in 2020, he would run for a third term unopposed.
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
8,516
#36
If Julius Caesar were to somehow be transported forward in time to 2019 at 4am on the Ides of March 44 B.C. to Washington, DC, I have a feeling that he would be President of the United States within a decade. If Napoleon Bonaparte were transported from St. Helena in 1820 to France in 2019, I have a feeling that Macron would be out of power within a month (assuming Napoleon's terminal condition is cured by modern medicine). If Arthur Wellesley somehow proclaimed his support for Boris Johnson, May's ministry would be over in a week. And if George Washington somehow ran for President in 2020, he would run for a third term unopposed.
Disagree strongly. Great men are mostly created by their times.
 
Aug 2015
2,359
uk
#38
What he did he did solely ofr his own Ego. He cared nothing for france. If he could have down better as an Italain or German or Russian he would have.
I agree. Most of what he did was for the glory of Napoleon rather than the glory of France. Despite what he said, what he actually did suggests this was the case. Certainly his return from Elba, whilst glorious and truly amazing, was done not because France was in need of her Emperor, but because her Emperor needed her.
 
Aug 2015
2,359
uk
#39
If Julius Caesar were to somehow be transported from 4am on the Ides of March 44 B.C. to Washington, DC in 2019, I have a feeling that he would be President of the United States within a decade. If Napoleon Bonaparte were transported from St. Helena in 1820 to France in 2019, I have a feeling that Macron would be out of power within a month (assuming Napoleon's terminal condition is cured by modern medicine). If Arthur Wellesley somehow proclaimed his support for Boris Johnson, May's ministry would be over in a week. And if George Washington somehow ran for President in 2020, he would run for a third term unopposed.

I agree. But only because of what they did. We exhalt our heroes, so that movie stars/tv personalities can be elected to high office , and many hang on the words of their favourite sports stars or celebrity icons.

It is unlikely that if any of these people were transported forward in time before they became famous that they would achieve anything like the glory they did in their day.
 
Jul 2018
496
Hong Kong
#40
What he did he did solely ofr his own Ego. He cared nothing for france. If he could have down better as an Italain or German or Russian he would have.
Absolutely, Bernadotte and Joseph Bonaparte were a far better monarch than Napoleon, despite their military leadership was just average, and far less inspiring and charismatic than Napoleon. They didn't rule on the basis of ego and was inclined on the “way of moderation”, totally unlike the forceful Napoleon who always pushed things to extremity.