Wellington 'Never Lost a Battle' - Why both sides annoy me

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
8,514
#41
Take careful note of the exact point in time where most of these theoretical "time warps" happen for most of these famous figures.
Based on what are these extravagant claims made? Napoleon could even sieze power in his own time competently. he flubbed it and had to be resucred by his Brother. In another time poeriod without an extended preparation, The Idea within a month napoleon could aehive anything is juyst ludircous fantasy detached from any reality,

These histroical figures were sucessful within their context, and the support they had at the time. Tehre ius no reason to sugguest that these particular personalities were super adaptable, Napoleon certainly was not,
 
Likes: Gvelion
May 2018
613
Michigan
#42
No, hi
Based on what are these extravagant claims made? Napoleon could even sieze power in his own time competently. he flubbed it and had to be resucred by his Brother. In another time poeriod without an extended preparation, The Idea within a month napoleon could aehive anything is juyst ludircous fantasy detached from any reality,

These histroical figures were sucessful within their context, and the support they had at the time. Tehre ius no reason to sugguest that these particular personalities were super adaptable, Napoleon certainly was not,
Lol, you are taking things too seriously. It is reasonable to assume that the high degree of popularity Napoleon still has in France would give him a vas amount of political capital if he were to join our century.

In this scenario, it isn't unreasonable to presume that if Napoleon were in France in 2019, and he wanted an unpopular President out of power, it would likely happen. Macrons unpopularity + Napoleon's popularity means people will listen, at least until he wears out his welcome.

The point , which was evidently missed completely by some commenters here, is that hero worship and cults of personality that extend into the 21st century, in spite of quite a few reasons to *not" worship them. It's unfortunate that Napoleon's Cult of Personality is still alive in some circles (such as France).
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
8,514
#43
No, hi

Lol, you are taking things too seriously.
.
If your proposition won't support any serious analysis that's your problem.

It is reasonable to assume that the high degree of popularity Napoleon still has in France would give him a vas amount of political capital if he were to join our century.
Napoleon's popular legacy in France is far from one way thiere is also a vast amount of popular disliking of Napoleon. The French view of Napoleon has always been very divided, bonapartism is a thing in French historu and society, and it;s extremely divisive.


In this scenario, it isn't unreasonable to presume that if Napoleon were in France in 2019, and he wanted an unpopular President out of power, it would likely happen. Macrons unpopularity + Napoleon's popularity means people will listen, at least until he wears out his welcome.
There srtil has to be a method for removing a President. Without elections how is that going to happen? Doe she have a orghainsed political machine? Why should the existisng parties accept an outside force. Whos going to be funding him?

Napoleon was far from infallible. His propaganda methods worked well in 1796-1800 but the current Media landsacpe is massively different. There is little to sugguest that Napoleon would be effective in such a context, certinaly the proposed 1815+ Napoleon was vain, tempestuous man unable to accept dissent or criticism, I strongly suspect he would not survive the first interview .


The point , which was evidently missed completely by some commenters here, is that hero worship and cults of personality that extend into the 21st century, in spite of quite a few reasons to *not" worship them. It's unfortunate that Napoleon's Cult of Personality is still alive in some circles (such as France).
France is where the cult of Napoleon is least alive.
 
Likes: Gvelion
Nov 2010
7,415
Cornwall
#45
I too think Napoleon would be ideal in today's scene, massive self-publicist that he was.

Interesting that Macron got in on an unusual wave of populism and is now popularly very unpopular :upsidedown:

Funny old world
 
Feb 2016
4,227
Japan
#47
Quatre Bras was a battle in its own right. Several thousand casualties. Many units suffered more there than they did at Waterloo.

That said, Ney having failed in his mission and being driven from the crossroads clearly lost.
 
Likes: Edratman

Edratman

Ad Honorem
Feb 2009
6,293
Eastern PA
#48
How, he wasn't there ?

Quatre Bras was a skirmish...a delaying tactic before the battle of Waterloo.
War: Napoleonic: The Waterloo Campaign.
Date of the Battle of Quatre Bras: 16th June 1815
Place of the Battle of Quatre Bras: South of Brussels in modern Belgium at the cross-roads on the Brussels-Namur road.
Combatants at the Battle of Quatre Bras: The allied British-German-Dutch-Belgian army against the French.
Commanders at the Battle of Quatre Bras: the Duke of Wellington commanded the allied force. Marshal Ney commanded the French force.

Winner of the Battle of Quatre Bras: Marshal Ney failed to drive the Duke of Wellington off the Quatre Bras cross-roads. However, the Allies were forced to retreat north, up the Brussels road to the village of Waterloo, due to the defeat of the Prussians, under Marshal Blucher, by the Emperor Napoleon in the linked battle of Ligny, a few miles to the south-east of Quatre Bras.

Battle of Quatre Bras
The army commanded by Wellington retreated from the battlefield. The British and allies were not bested on the field, but possession of the battlefield is a prime factor in determining the victor. The French are considered the winner of Quatre Bras by default.
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
8,514
#49
The army commanded by Wellington retreated from the battlefield. The British and allies were not bested on the field, but possession of the battlefield is a prime factor in determining the victor. The French are considered the winner of Quatre Bras by default.
The British held the Battefield, the French withdrew, then the british decided to not hang around and withdrew. The British held the battlefield overnight in the immediate aftermath.
 
Likes: Edric Streona
Aug 2015
2,359
uk
#50
Quatre Bras was a draw, as it denied noth sides what they wanted; Wellington could not join up with Blucher, but also the French could not stop Wellington from setting himself up at Waterloo. Initially it may appear that the French had gained the greater benefit, but in hindsight it ultimately led to the French losingvthe campaign. Nevertheless a battle where the opposition retreat is not a defeat.