Were Germanii a Persian tribe?

Sep 2009
300
London, England
#21
You mean the Indo-European theory of common origin of speakers of IE languages, which is normally accepted. 'Aryan' is a cultural term used only to label those who speak an Iranian language, worship Iranian gods, and generally follow an Iranian lifestyle.
Or rather, "Aryan" refers to the Indo-Iranian languages, which includes the Iranian and Indo-Aryan (Northern Indian) branches.
 
Sep 2009
300
London, England
#22
Do you have any actual evidence that the Ottoman were so stupid to believe that?

It remains that German is vastly different from Persia and belong on a different branch on the IE languages. Persian is a Subject Object Verb language, while German is nominally a Subject Verb Object language, German has 3 grammatical genders, Persian none, Persian lacks definite articles for the most part, and the basic vocabulary, outside the common IE vocabulary, is different, and a host of other differences. IWhile the Ottomans weren't exactly rocket scientist outside of ways to kill, I can't believe the Ottomans were that bad of scholars..
The Ottomans didn't just build rockets for war... One 17th-century Ottoman aviator Lagari Hasan Celebi reportedly used a rocket to fly!

As far as linguistics go, the Ottomans were well-versed in the languages of Turkish, Arabic, and Persian, but I wouldn't imagine them being very well-versed in any Indo-European languages other than Persian. But since they were very familiar with Persian, they wouldn't be silly enough to think it sounds like German.
 
Sep 2014
1,207
Queens, NYC
#23
Do you have any actual evidence that the Ottoman were so stupid to believe that?

It remains that German is vastly different from Persia and belong on a different branch on the IE languages. Persian is a Subject Object Verb language, while German is nominally a Subject Verb Object language, German has 3 grammatical genders, Persian none, Persian lacks definite articles for the most part, and the basic vocabulary, outside the common IE vocabulary, is different, and a host of other differences. IWhile the Ottomans weren't exactly rocket scientist outside of ways to kill, I can't believe the Ottomans were that bad of scholars..
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I'll try to look up the text I read it in; but I would be totally dependent on that text's sources.
 

Bart Dale

Ad Honorem
Dec 2009
7,095
#25
The Ottomans didn't just build rockets for war... One 17th-century Ottoman aviator Lagari Hasan Celebi reportedly used a rocket to fly!

As far as linguistics go, the Ottomans were well-versed in the languages of Turkish, Arabic, and Persian, but I wouldn't imagine them being very well-versed in any Indo-European languages other than Persian. But since they were very familiar with Persian, they wouldn't be silly enough to think it sounds like German.
Given all the dealings they had and trade with Western Europeans, it speaks very poorly of their scholarship.

As for the Ottoman aviator, "reportedly" is the operative word. There is no actual evidence to support the claims.!!

Ottoman consistently lagged Western Europe in all fieles of science outside related military matters.
 

Bart Dale

Ad Honorem
Dec 2009
7,095
#26
The comment on the Ottoman perception of similarities of Persian and German is in From Babel to Dragomans Bernard Lewis, page 44,
link is:

https://books.google.com/books?id=Y...=Is German a corrupt form of Persian?&f=false
The comment represented the views of an Ottoman visitor to Vienna, who clearly was not a scholar, and demonstrates the ignorance of Europeans He noted the similarities of both Persian and German as Indo-European languages, and made an erroneous conclusion.

In the same book in the chapter, it talks about how one Ottoman desribed an European banquet that was very inaccurate of actual customs. The Ottomans weren't very reliable when it came to describing other peoples customs or languages.

As I previously said, the Germanii (with two "i"s) appear to be an iranian tribe, since they are described in the same paragraph with other Iranian tribes. They are no relation to the Germani (one "i") the Romans talked about. They just happen to have similar names.
 
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Sep 2009
300
London, England
#27
Given all the dealings they had and trade with Western Europeans, it speaks very poorly of their scholarship.

As for the Ottoman aviator, "reportedly" is the operative word. There is no actual evidence to support the claims.!!

Ottoman consistently lagged Western Europe in all fieles of science outside related military matters.
After seeing MJuingong's post, I stand corrected. It seems the Ottomans were very familiar with German, and appear to have been the first to make some kind of Indo-European connection between Persian and German.

While we have very little details on the story, the writer who reported it, Evliya Celebi, apparently claimed to have witnessed the flights of the Celebi brothers.

There were a number of scientific fields where the Ottomans rivalled Western Europe. The Istanbul observatory of Taqi ad-Din in the 16th century, for example, produced more accurate astronomical observations than Tycho Brahe's observatory, had more accurate mechanical clocks, and had a rudimentary telescope. Ottoman astronomers also accepted the Earth's rotation in the 15th century, and Taqi ad-Din invented a steam turbine in the 16th century.
 
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Bart Dale

Ad Honorem
Dec 2009
7,095
#28
After seeing MJuingong's post, I stand corrected. It seems the Ottomans were very familiar with German, and appear to have been the first to make some kind of Indo-European connection between Persian and German.

While we have very little details on the story, the writer who reported it, Evliya Celebi, apparently claimed to have witnessed the flights of the Celebi brothers.

There were a number of scientific fields where the Ottomans rivalled Western Europe. The Istanbul observatory of Taqi ad-Din in the 16th century, for example, produced more accurate astronomical observations than Tycho Brahe's observatory, had more accurate mechanical clocks, and had a rudimentary telescope. Ottoman astronomers also accepted the Earth's rotation in the 15th century, and Taqi ad-Din invented a steam turbine in the 16th century.
The Ottoman's made no major scientific discoveries or contributions. The observatory of Taqi ad-Din was torn down after a few years under Muslim religious pressure, and no major disvoveries were made by it. While Brahe's measurements lead directly to the calculation of the true orbits of the planets by Kepler, tad-Din work led nowhere. As far as having more accurate clocks, all the major mechanical clock advancements came from Europe of which the Ottomans played no role at all, and there is no real evidence that ad-Din's clock was more accurate than the best European clocks of the time, and it was certainly inferior to the pendulum clocks the Europeans built.

As for the telescope, thenOttomans made no significant discoveries with them, nor did they make any contributuon to the design of telescopes. As you said, they had only rudimentary ones, and Galileo just reading about telescopes made more discoveries and more contributions to the design of telescopes than the entire Ottoman world.

As for the steam turbine, while ad-Din is the oldest we have that descibes using steam to turn a spit, Da Vinci earlier invented a turbine to do the same application, only using smoke instead of steam, but the principle remains the same. There were a number of writings about using steam to turn spits around the same time frame, ad-Din's was just a few decades older, so the idea may not even have originated with him - as mentioned, the idea of the turbine to perform exactly the same function had already been invented before, so ad-Din may have been describing an existing invention.
 
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May 2019
1
Philadelphia
#29
I stumbled upon this thread after seeing Carmani on an old greek map, and since I am familiar with the term Indo-European I wondered if this country has ties to germany... Russia uses the symbol and they with the Germanic people both share slavic origins (not all russians just the Moscovia part that became monarchs) and the symbol is one of the oldest in the world even found in the americas which might mean that it has an Atlantian origin if you are in to that stuff. I shared a link discussing it, also worth noting this symbol is part of Donald Trumps family crest. Double-Headed Eagle - Earth before the Flood: Disappeared Continents and Civilizations
 
Jul 2019
2
Texas
#30
Germanii were indeed a Persian tribe






Actually the fact that Herodotud knew the difference between different Indo-Iranian people is proven by his knowledge about the Scythians and Medes... ,

The Germanii clan were among the Persian tribes that Cyrus the great united against the Median confederation and they were Persian indeed, they still are , Germanii or Carmania is the ancient name of Kerman province and even today they are pure Persians .

Just let me remind you that Germanic languages are all derived from Persian Avestan and also the fact that Zoroaster composed the Gataha in Gothic language proves the fact that Gothic people were originally of Persian /Aryan stock .

This also explains Hitlers allance with Reza Shah (founder of the Pahlavi dynasty of Iran) , its said that even the re-naming of Persia into Iran( the land of Aryans) were suggested by Hitler himself .

Would you please expound on the claim that "Zoroaster composed the Gataha in Gothic language"? Can you provide a reference?
 

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