Were Hengest and Horsa Real?

Sep 2015
337
ireland
Interesting thoughts.

I suppose to take it any further, we'd need to ask what Dui meant in Old Welsh? It admittedly sounds a bit like 'Dee', but presumably would have been pronounced 'dwee', which takes us a step away from the immediate apparent similarity.
To my Gaelic ear that would be dwee or dwi also, depending on whether there was originally a fada on the "i", something I`m unsure of. Cormaic also appeared to have a Welsh source for his claim because he referred to an Ui Liathain fortress as "Dind map Lethain" and explained how the British "map" was the equivilent of the Gaelic "mac". So it seems likely that Tradui was a Welsh word. The other thing I thought interesting about "dui" is what if the U was interchangeable with V in the same way we commonly find it on Roman epigraphy? Then you`re getting something akin to Deva. However I think we should then see a vowel between d and v.
 
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Sep 2015
337
ireland
In the Haleian genealogies we also find a reference to the territory of Cunedda....

"Hic est terminus eorum: A flumine quod vocatur Dubr Duiu usque ad aliad flumen Tebi. Et tenuerunt plurimas regiones in occidentali plaga Brittanniae"

Dubr Duiu is apparently the Dee.
 

Peter Graham

Ad Honorem
Jan 2014
2,621
Westmorland
So it seems likely that Tradui was a Welsh word.
The first bit certainly could be. As a simplex word, 'tra' simply means 'across' (as in 'tra merin reget' - 'across the sea of Rheged'). What it means in a compounded word I'm less sure about. The Old Welsh word for beach or shore is traeth rather than tra, although whether the word would be shortened in such a context you may well know better than me.

The other thing I thought interesting about "dui" is what if the U was interchangeable with V in the same way we commonly find it on Roman epigraphy? Then you`re getting something akin to Deva. However I think we should then see a vowel between d and v.
My guess is that Deva is another example of the Roman's Latinising the existing place name. 'Deva' looks to contain the second element 'fa' (which mutates to 'va') and which means 'place'. Thus Galava may originally have been Celli-fa ('wooded place'). Dee is a common river name, but, somewhat embarrassingly, I don't know what it means. I know some believe it is a name of a deity, but I'm not sure what the evidence is for that.