Were the Germans bad with military strategy in the world wars?

Nov 2013
139
Australia
Heisenberg i believe. knew the crit mass. and withheld it in gobblygook to others sympathetic to, or good national socialists.

The list of names he argued with was long and prestigious.
Yet they came to wrong conclusion as 'trinity' showed.

which brings me to a favourite line from history.

The shock wave was felt over 100 miles (160 km) away, and the mushroom cloud reached 7.5 miles (12.1 km) in height. After the initial euphoria of witnessing the explosion had passed,[n 2] test director Kenneth Bainbridge commented to Los Alamos director J. Robert Oppenheimer, "Now we are all sons of bitches.Oppenheimer later stated that, while watching the test, he was reminded of a line from the Bhagavad Gita, a Hindu scripture: "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

and that was a 20 kt 'tactical fission weapo'n. A fire cracker
 
Nov 2013
139
Australia
The Germans were more concerned about atomic energy than a potential bomb. With vital resources ever more under pressure and allied intervention creating havoc with supply, large scale electrical generation was an attractive idea, and there's no evidence that the Germans seriously pursued the weapon option, especially since they were not developing a purpose built platform to deliver it - this last point might seem a bit over restrictive, but bear in mind that German weapon research and development in WW2 was not a unified process, consisting of a plethora of projects and research teams all vying for official backing and creating a sort of 'patent race' that essentially wasted effort in duplication and diversification.
Caldrail

True yet Arado got in there and the ar-234 became the standard for TAC
jet powered strike aircraft. Bombing remagen bridge at 400kmh+
Sometimes the screwy nutcases had true genius in pack. the Ho-229 is another.
Wrong war. the 10's thousands of p-51's and such cancelled out qualitative increase.

prill
 

Sam-Nary

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
6,735
At present SD, USA
Heisenberg i believe. knew the crit mass. and withheld it in gobblygook to others sympathetic to, or good national socialists.
According to Richard Rhodes in The Making of the Atomic Bomb, Heisenberg not only DIDN'T know how much was needed for bomb production (and in his case actually OVERESTIMATING how much was needed) but that Heisenberg was also a good National Socialist. The notion that he deliberately held information back didn't come out until after America had won the race, Germany had lost the war, and National Socialism seen as the epitome of evil to the world... and as such, Heisenberg needed to cover his butt.
 

caldrail

Ad Honorem
Feb 2012
5,127
Caldrail

True yet Arado got in there and the ar-234 became the standard for TAC
jet powered strike aircraft. Bombing remagen bridge at 400kmh+
Sometimes the screwy nutcases had true genius in pack. the Ho-229 is another.
Wrong war. the 10's thousands of p-51's and such cancelled out qualitative increase.

prill
For instance, the Germans had more than twenty different radar types in development, most of which did the exact same job.

The Arado 234 was successful as a tactical bomber, an aeroplane that even interested the Americans, but the Ho229 was not put into service and was more of a curiosity (nor was it, as is often claimed since the B2 went into service, a stealth fighter - the 229 was designed for aerodynamic efficiency, not stealth)

There were a whole number of technological innovations that the Germans put into service first. However, that does not avoid the reality that the Germans were putting forward a great many jet bomber projects, even after the RLM had instituted a priority for lightweight defensive fighters. The situation was essentially the same for any potential weapon system.
 
Nov 2013
139
Australia
According to Richard Rhodes in The Making of the Atomic Bomb, Heisenberg not only DIDN'T know how much was needed for bomb production (and in his case actually OVERESTIMATING how much was needed) but that Heisenberg was also a good National Socialist. The notion that he deliberately held information back didn't come out until after America had won the race, Germany had lost the war, and National Socialism seen as the epitome of evil to the world... and as such, Heisenberg needed to cover his butt.
Sam
you may well be totally correct. iwas not there.
 
Nov 2013
139
Australia
For instance, the Germans had more than twenty different radar types in development, most of which did the exact same job.

The Arado 234 was successful as a tactical bomber, an aeroplane that even interested the Americans, but the Ho229 was not put into service and was more of a curiosity (nor was it, as is often claimed since the B2 went into service, a stealth fighter - the 229 was designed for aerodynamic efficiency, not stealth)

There were a whole number of technological innovations that the Germans put into service first. However, that does not avoid the reality that the Germans were putting forward a great many jet bomber projects, even after the RLM had instituted a priority for lightweight defensive fighters. The situation was essentially the same for any potential weapon system.

Caldrail

True. and false.. the ar234 was more than just 'of interest to america or the USSR'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-25

screen shots
An yes of course the 229 was not stealth, no-one said it was. Allusion to b2 stealth for a 'wing design' is simplistic thinking. 'fuel is more the issue.' 1000km proj range?

Yes the Germans were scattered and .well.geeks..

some great ideas is what im on about through freedom to think. [anything]
A strange oxymoron in nazi germany
 
Last edited:
Oct 2018
94
Sweden
Obviously, Hitler and the Kaiser made huge mistakes. There diplomacy and intelligence were also weak. But when people say they were good with tactics and bad with strategy, were they bad with military strategy of the generals or just higher level political decisions and Hitler's interference in military strategy?
Lost because they had 1/20th of their enemies production capabilities, resources and manpower
 

redcoat

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
7,534
Stockport Cheshire UK
M-R Pact must have made quite an impression with Stalin, but "Gifts"? it was was a fair trade of what both needed. All this was just for stalling the German attack.
It wasn't signed to stall the German's, the trade deals agreed with the German's were a major reason the German's were able to invade the SU in the first place, without the supplies the oil situation would have been far worst for the German's restricting major offensives.
The pact was signed by the Soviets because it gave them back the territory lost in the Soviet-Polish War of 1920.
 

Larrey

Ad Honorem
Sep 2011
4,815
M-R Pact must have made quite an impression with Stalin, but "Gifts"? it was was a fair trade of what both needed. All this was just for stalling the German attack.
Gifts would be an obvious overstatement, but Stalin and the Soviet Union REALLY banked on Hitler and Nazi-Germany continuing to be in good faith about the new relationship. Even as evidence was mounting Nazi-Germany was preparing to abandon it, and jump the USSR.

This to the point that when the attack came in 1941 the USSR, and Stalin personally, had been willfully blind and ignoring what was about to happen for some time. And it's not as if the Soviet espionage wasn't good enough to find the information. It did. But it didn't fit the politically preferred scenario of Nazi-Germany remaining on friendly terms with the USSR, at least for the time being, and so was ignored. Until the Germans actually attacked.

At which point the USSR forces in the newly acquired parts of eastern Europe, Poland most of all, were in no position to offer effective resistance, because the USSR had planned and prepared for Nazi-Germany to remain friendly for several years more. It's a big part of why the central front of the USSR caved so spectacularly early in Barbarossa. On the southern front, where the Soviet forces defended properly designed positions they had planned to if necessary fight from for years, the offensive was a lot slower.
 

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