Were the Hyksos the Hebrews?

Jan 2008
18,733
Chile, Santiago
#71
So, if 500 is closer to the truth, then it is now wonder that they had "Egyptian names!"
These 511 years come from Flavius Joseph/Manetho, a number which is not confirmed by egyptologists. The six kings of the XVth dyn. lasted 100 years which is also the length of the Second Intermediate Period.

There were many foreigns people from various background in Avaris, something which is not a surprise for who knows ports and capital cities.
 
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Sep 2018
16
erewhon
#72
they were Semitic, as their rulers had Semitic names
yes,, they were semites, not israelites.

Some ancient writers were either confused, gullible, ignorant or perhaps trying to make a connection bet the two.., as hyksos are knoen to be gallant, brave and sturdy people.

as to the israelites.., some of them lived in egypt at that time.., but not as many as the biblical stories pictures it to be.

the Exodus is a Myth too.

:)
 
Feb 2011
731
Kitchener. Ont.
#74
There is a volume of monographs concerning those Hyksos.
The Hyksos: New Historical and Archaeological Perspectives, Ed. Oren, 1997.

The volume presents a wealth of facts & details demonstrating the Hyksos were Asiatics.
I'm not sure if some posters above are making distinction between Semites & Asiatics, if that is the case I fail to understand the difference.

Surviving texts appear to suggest Israelites were a religious faction among the Hebrews, and Hebrews were Semites, who are without any doubt, Asiatics.
 
Jun 2012
6,858
Malaysia
#75
I believe they were Canaanites, therefore Semitic & Asiatic, but not Israelites. In that kind of time, the Israelites were still relatively recent immigrants to the Canaan region, so they cud not hv risen to such a position of strength yet, I don't think. While mainstream opinion I believe is that the Israelites only rose to their peak during the time of David & Solomon. From what I hv read the Hyksos were more likely a confederation, with some folks even suggesting that they might hv been under Hittite leadership. Which wud also explain, at least in part, the lingering intense rivalry & animosity between Hattusa & Egypt even till several centuries later.
 
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Corvidius

Ad Honorem
Jul 2017
2,029
Crows nest
#76
Modern usage of the term "Asiatic" also skews our view of this. To the ancient Egyptians everybody to their east was Asiatic, no matter what their actual ethnicity was, just as everybody to their west was Libyan and to the south Nubian. And for completion, there was no generic name for Europeans, as to the north was just the Great Green. The "Sea Peoples" is the closest to a generic term, but it is late and specific to a group of would be invaders.
 
Feb 2011
731
Kitchener. Ont.
#77
...... And for completion, there was no generic name for Europeans, as to the north was just the Great Green. The "Sea Peoples" is the closest to a generic term, but it is late and specific to a group of would be invaders.

Just a side issue, the statue bases at Kom el-Hetan, attributed to Amenhotep III appear to list a number of European cities identified on Crete & mainland Greece. This is the nearest identification we can use for Europeans, and Amenhotep identified those locations as, "lands of the Fenkhu".
 
Aug 2018
143
Italy
#78
Feb 2011
731
Kitchener. Ont.
#79
Didn't that inscription identified those places as Keftiu and Tanaju?

The Egyptian Interest in Mycenaean Greece | Jorrit Kelder - Academia.edu
The statue base which bares the names of Aegean locations has a motif at the center of the front. As you look at the base there are two toponyms to the right of the motif, these are Keftiu & Tinay. On the left side of the motif, and around the left side of the base are all the Aegean (Mainland Greek/Crete) toponyms.
Keftiu & Tinay are therefore separated by this motif from the Aegean toponyms.
The text I mentioned previously concerning the land of the Fenkhu is written above the Aegean toponyms.
There is a different text written above Keftiu & Tinay which identifies them as countries in the north of Asia.
 
Aug 2018
143
Italy
#80
The statue base which bares the names of Aegean locations has a motif at the center of the front. As you look at the base there are two toponyms to the right of the motif, these are Keftiu & Tinay. On the left side of the motif, and around the left side of the base are all the Aegean (Mainland Greek/Crete) toponyms.
Keftiu & Tinay are therefore separated by this motif from the Aegean toponyms.
The text I mentioned previously concerning the land of the Fenkhu is written above the Aegean toponyms.
There is a different text written above Keftiu & Tinay which identifies them as countries in the north of Asia.
It is clear from other egyptian documents that Fenkhu refers to the precursors of the Phoenicians, not to the Aegean or to Europe or part of it.


The first source, and also the most precise, (to my knowledge, perhaps there are others more ancient) is the so-called "Novel of Sinuhe".
As the title says, it is a literary text that tells the story of Sinuhe, an Egyptian who is forced to flee the valley and ends up living among the populations of the Syrian-Palestinian coast.
The events told in the novel take place immediately after the death of Pharaoh Amenemhat I, founder of the XII dynasty and therefore dated to the twentieth century BC, however the oldest surviving manuscripts date back to the reign of Amenemhat III, around 1800 BC. So we can consider that the information contained in Sinuhe date back to at least 1800 BC. perhaps even to the twentieth century BC

Now, at some point in history, Sinuhe mentions some peoples of the Lebanese coast whose loyalty he named in the name of the pharaoh. He says:

"And Meki in Qedem, the mountain-men leading Kesh, Menus from the land of Fenkhu,
These are the rulers by their exact names who have come into your affection
Without mentioning Retenu (Syria), as much yours as are your dogs"


In this case it is clear that "Fenkhu" refers to the land of the "Phoenicians", to "Phoenicia".

In fact, identification is not only supported by phonetic correspondence (Fn-kh-w = Fnk), but it is also and above all confirmed by geographical location: Fenkhu is located near Retenu (Syria) and Kesh (The mountains of Kappadocia and southern east of the Anatolia, or perhaps Armenia?). Qedem, on the other hand, is a Semitic word meaning "(Land / people of the East)", and is also found in the Bible ("eretz bne Qedem" = "land of the sons of Qedem") in the story of Jacob's journey to the Syrian city of Harran (Gen 29.1). Qedem then probably indicates the inland regions east of Lebanon.
The "Fenkhu" also appear in two inscriptions from the Pharaoh Ahmose I era (1550-1520 bc).
First inscription:

"Year 22 under the Majesty of King Ahmose ... The stone quarries were opened again ... the stone was transported with oxen that his majesty has captured in his victories against the Fenkhu"

The second:

"The Asians approach together with a timid step, his sword is at Khenthennofer, his terror in the lands of the Fenkhu"

So here we have allusions to a period of conflict between Egypt and the Fenkhus (remember that Ahmose is the pharaoh who liberated Egypt from the Hyksos, followed by various campaigns in Syria-Palestine)

The "Fenkhu" appear again at the time of Tuthmosis III (1479-1425). In a fragment of the annals connected with the attack on Megiddo of his first military campaign, the Pharaoh speaks of the:

"Land of the Fenkhu, who began to invade my borders"

Another allusion to the Fenkhu appears in the year 42, in connection with missions along the coast.

Finally, the Fenkhu are mentioned in a stele of Abydos dating back to the age of coregence between Ramses I and Seti I. In this inscription Seti says:

"I have subdued the lands of the Fenkhu for him, and I have rejected the rebels of the desert for him"
 
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