Were there any people in countries that fought against Napoleon that openly admired him, and/or defended his actions?

May 2017
928
France
#21
Of course,but Napoleon is in competition only since 1821,when he died in Saint Helen.198 years is not comparable with more than 20 centuries.We must wait sometimes for the definitive results in 3821.Happy new year !!!!!!!
 

authun

Ad Honorem
Aug 2011
5,194
#22
Alexander was admired by Hannibal, Caesar and Roman civilization itself, Charles XII and etc. Titus Livy was actively trying to prove in his work that Alexander would be defeated by Romans
Widukind of Corvey writing about the origins of the Saxons: "There are many stories. Some say they are Danes, others that they are descended from the armies of Alexander".
 
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Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,476
Portugal
#23
The Portugal Legion was composed with 40 % of portuguese soldiers and with 60 % of spanish soldiers from the north of the Castilla,Estremadura and Galicia (registers of Vincennes).
When the Portuguese Legion leaved Portugal in 1808 it was composed only/mostly by Portuguese, from the disbanded Portuguese army units, with the eyes closed from the regency, but with the desertions (mainly still in Spain) and the casualties the refreshments came from other nationalities since France also lost control of continental Portugal. Don’t have the numbers but it doesn’t surprise if by 1813, after the Russian Campaign, it would reach those percentages.

By the way, many of the soldiers and officer that were transferred from the Portuguese army to the Portuguese Legion had later an amnesty, and some officers even had again a relevant position in Portugal.
 
Sep 2016
1,127
Georgia
#24
Of course,but Napoleon is in competition only since 1821,when he died in Saint Helen.198 years is not comparable with more than 20 centuries.We must wait sometimes for the definitive results in 3821.Happy new year !!!!!!!
Well, you compared him to Christ.

We can also mention Hitler than. Hitler is in competition only since 1945. So he had even less time than Napoleon.

Happy New Year !
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,101
#25
(c) There was liberal side to Napoleon, he spread revolutionary and enlightenment ideas that have been important to the development of Europe and the West during this particular period, .
The Ideas of Enlightenment had spread well before Napoleon appeared. Many of teh Reforms attributed to Napoleon predated his rise in France or had been adopted elsewhere before the French Revolution.

Joseph II of Hapburg/Austriam empire, introduced many reforms, the Government and Administration , religious toleration (including jews) , equality before the law, uniform criminal code, uniform land tax whith all peole being taxed equality, abolition of Guilds, Legal Abolition of Serfdom, All before the the French revolution.

And Joseph Ii is far from the only 18th Century reformer, the Idaas of the enlightenment, rational government, equality before the law, rational judiciary and legal systems, equality in taxation, secular society, absolition of guilds, freedom of markets, science, the arts, all these ideas were around and often implemented in many countries long before Napoleon was around let alone "spreading" anything.
 
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Willempie

Ad Honorem
Jul 2015
5,110
Netherlands
#26
The Ideas of Enlightenment had spread well before Napoleon appeared. Many of teh Reforms attributed to Napoleon predated his rise in France or had been adopted elsewhere before the French Revolution.

Joseph II of Hapburg/Austriam empire, introduced many reforms, the Government and Administration , religious toleration (including jews) , equality before the law, uniform criminal code, uniform land tax whith all peole being taxed equality, abolition of Guilds, Legal Abolition of Serfdom, All before the the French revolution.

And Joseph Ii is far from the only 18th Century reformer, the Idaas of the enlightenment, rational government, equality before the law, rational judiciary and legal systems, equality in taxation, secular society, absolition of guilds, freedom of markets, science, the arts, all these ideas were around and often implemented in many countries long before Napoleon was around let alone "spreading" anything.
"Here lies Joseph II, who failed in all he undertook."
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,101
#27
"Here lies Joseph II, who failed in all he undertook."
A trite expression which is inaccurate.

He did not achieve all he set out to and thre was a reactionary reaction after his rule, but much of his reforms survived.

But in any case the Ideas of the enlightenment had spread far and wide well before Napoleon. The Idea that the were constrained in teh borders of France and only spread by French bayonets is false.
 

Willempie

Ad Honorem
Jul 2015
5,110
Netherlands
#28
A trite expression which is inaccurate.

He did not achieve all he set out to and thre was a reactionary reaction after his rule, but much of his reforms survived.

But in any case the Ideas of the enlightenment had spread far and wide well before Napoleon. The Idea that the were constrained in teh borders of France and only spread by French bayonets is false.
The ideas, yes. Its implementation mostly was limited to the French revolution (and its armies) and the UK. The so-called enlightened absolutists either weren't able to implement the enlightenment ideas or just used it as a tool to outmaneuver certain aristocrats. In any case things like serfdom remained in Prussia, Russia and Austria until well after the revolution. Prussia for example only abolished it (with the reform movement) after Napoleon trashed their armies at Jena. This at a time when in the western protestant countries it had already died out.

Btw the quote is apparently what Joseph himself wanted as an epitaph and too good not to quote as truth ;)
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,101
#29
The ideas, yes. Its implementation mostly was limited to the French revolution (and its armies) and the UK.
False. Ideas like Religious tolerance, secularization, equality before the law, abolition of guilds, freedom of trade, equality of taxation, due process of law were implemented in a lasting fashion outside of France and England. Not all, not everywhere, not without reaction. But many changes were lasting.

The so-called enlightened absolutists either weren't able to implement the enlightenment ideas or just used it as a tool to outmaneuver certain aristocrats. I
Napoleon fits this category as well, Napoleon was controled reactionary reform. He rolled back a fair bit of the revolutionary ideas. He was an absolutiests as any bourbon and decidedly interventionist in the ecnomy,removed local democracy and autonomy, he claimed devine right, he introtoduced a new nobility with tax exempt heriditory estates. Religious toleration, law reform, centralization, more effecient and interferring ogiovernment was adopted by many reactionary regimes for thier own purposes.

n any case things like serfdom remained in Prussia, Russia and Austria until well after the revolution.
Austria abolished the legal basis of serfdom but failed to remove the financial aspects in a lasting fashion, which often meant the serfs were mot much better of as peasants with obligations, much like the Russian emancipation later, and generally the abolition of serfdom under the French Empire the few places happened, was on this basis the feudal dues were just moved over to financial obligations which did little to actually change much in real terms.

Prussia for example only abolished it (with the reform movement) after Napoleon trashed their armies at Jena. This at a time when in the western protestant countries it had already died out.
So what? France only made soem changes due to the revolution. Change needs circumstances, In France In Prussia, anywhere. Large established vested interests and privileged are powerful and difficult to over throw. Reformers are mostly a small mniority and normally only prosper when the circumstances favour radical change. In this case massive defeat of the Prussian state, loss of half the nation, and the oppressive Napoleonic occupation.After 1815 the pressure off, Aristocratic reaction followed. It's pattern followed many times.

Western prioestant countries ere ones that teh socio-ecnomic factors were quite different, the Nobles had become less of the factor than money/trade/merchants , Eatsenr europe had radicall;y different social structures, basically a very small to non-existent middle class resulting in different social pressures, and less forces pushing for reform. The Liberalization of ecnomcy and much charge was pushed by welathy non nobles or =nobles who wealth was no longer landed in basis. Powerful vested interests had moved over to a more sucessful pardigm of welath anad power than restricted economy and feudal land tenure.The Sucess of enlightenment Ideas depends teh social context they were in.


Btw the quote is apparently what Joseph himself wanted as an epitaph and too good not to quote as truth ;)
His legal changes remianed until the dissolution of the Empire. History is in the details. The persistence of "good stories" and anecdotes, cliches, is often poor history. His sucess rate was maybe 1/2 of what he attempted.