Were there any territories in British India in 1947 that would have preferred to become independent states as opposed to a part of India or Pakistan?

M.S. Islam

Ad Honorem
Jul 2012
3,280
Dhaka
#41
Where exactly is the evidence that he was about to succumb to Indian pressure to join India (assuming, of course, that this pressure actually existed and was that strong)?
Removal of pro-independence PM Kak, and subsequent appointment of Mahajan made it clear as day what he was about to do.
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,568
New Delhi, India
#43
Who said that Kashmir was a province? If Kak resigned or Mahajan was appointed as the Prime Minister, it what the King's wish. Why India did not sign the Standstill agreement was because the option of independence was not available in the Act.
However, we are soon going to resolve all questions and complete the merger of Kashmir in India by removing the blunder committed by Nehru, i.e., Article 370. Kashmir will go to polls in October.
Your link has virus-trojans, so Wikipedia advised me to keep away.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
19,771
SoCal
#44
Who said that Kashmir was a province? If Kak resigned or Mahajan was appointed as the Prime Minister, it what the King's wish. Why India did not sign the Standstill agreement was because the option of independence was not available in the Act.
However, we are soon going to resolve all questions and complete the merger of Kashmir in India by removing the blunder committed by Nehru, i.e., Article 370. Kashmir will go to polls in October.
Your link has virus-trojans, so Wikipedia advised me to keep away.
Can Article 370 actually be removed?

Also, Yes, if India insisted on keeping the Kashmir Valley, it would have been a good strategic move to flood it with Hindu settlers. After all, if the demographics of a particular area change, the politics regarding this area could also change. For instance, after millions of Germans were expelled from the territories east of the Oder-Neisse Line, millions of Poles and hundreds of thousands of Russians settled there; eventually Germany came to acknowledge demographic realities by giving up its claim to these territories.
 
Likes: Rajeev
Apr 2018
608
India
#45
Can Article 370 actually be removed?

Also, Yes, if India insisted on keeping the Kashmir Valley, it would have been a good strategic move to flood it with Hindu settlers. After all, if the demographics of a particular area change, the politics regarding this area could also change. For instance, after millions of Germans were expelled from the territories east of the Oder-Neisse Line, millions of Poles and hundreds of thousands of Russians settled there; eventually Germany came to acknowledge demographic realities by giving up its claim to these territories.
Yep. Just a constitutional amendment bill has to be passed. That'll be the real challenge. However if it is done and the Supreme Court does not say that removal of 370 is not unconstitutional then it'll go down the gutter. That's the procedure. Getting it done is another thing. And till date I haven't seen one thing to suggest BJP doesn't belong to the lazy vote grabbing stereotype of Indian Politics.

Flooding the state with Hindu settlers was something Ariel Sharon (or was it Ehud Barak, don't remember correctly) suggested long ago. But thing is that in India it simply doesn't work that way. The very scarcity of resources and land which promotes settlements in occupied Palestine is totally absent in India. Above that Kashmir is a frozen mountainous region with little prospects other than tourism which performs pathetically in political turmoil. You can't really consider Hydro and Geothermal Power Generation to be great business prospects for commonfolk. And Indian Government doesn't have that much power as to migrate entire populations like Stalin's Russia. So it ain't happening.

The only thing that can happen is relocation of Kashmiri Pandits which is just around the corner for 28 years now. That's Indian politics for you.
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,568
New Delhi, India
#46
"Article 370 of the Indian constitution is an article that gives autonomous status to the state of Jammu and Kashmir. The article is drafted in Part XXI of the Constitution: Temporary, Transitional and Special Provisions." Article 370 of the Constitution of India - Wikipedia

So it can be easily removed without bringing in a Constitutional Amendment along with Article 35 (A) which has the residency regulations. Kashmir will have the State election probably in Oct.-Nov. BJP may be able to form a government in Kashmir. In the last Assembly, they had a strength of 25 out of 87. The majority figure is 44. That is, they will need 19 more seats, either of their own or with coalition partners. One must remember that Jammu & Kashmir does not mean only the valley.
 
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Apr 2018
608
India
#47
"Article 370 of the Indian constitution is an article that gives autonomous status to the state of Jammu and Kashmir. The article is drafted in Part XXI of the Constitution: Temporary, Transitional and Special Provisions." Article 370 of the Constitution of India - Wikipedia

So it can be easily removed without bringing in a Constitutional Amendment along with Article 35 (A) which has the residency regulations. Kashmir will have the State election probably in Oct.-Nov. BJP may be able to form a government in Kashmir. In the last Assembly, they had a strength of 25 out of 87. The majority figure is 44. That is, they will need 19 more seats, either of their own or with coalition partners. One must remember that Jammu & Kashmir does not mean only the valley.
Seems tough. Lok Sabha is one thing. But an anti repeal coalition by Congress, NC, PDP and Loan cannot be entirely ruled out. If that happens that means no chance for BJP immidiately after the elections. Crossing the magic number with Jammu and Ladakh alone is impossible.

Btw good of you to point out. I forgot the last special provision.
 
Oct 2015
1,105
India
#48
The Kashmiri king wanted independence, his original PM wanted independence, Kashmiri people including many Muslims wanted independence, even Jinnah was ready to accept their independence.

It was India that spoiled it all.
Here are two eyewitness accounts. One is by a Muslim person who actually participated in the Pakistan launched attack [1].

21st Oct at Muzaffarabad:

He (Gohar Rahman) says that Pathans reached Muzaffarabad on 21st Oct 1947 (a week before Maharaja signed the Instrument of Accession to India). Maharaja's forces fled from Muzaffarabad. Pathans looted & burnt the city, killed everyone who could not recite kalima, enslaved women, and so on & on. After spending one day sacking that city they moved towards Srinagar which is 170 kms away. Gohar Rahman too went with them.

25th Oct at Baramulla:

Gohar Rahman says that the story repeated in Baramulla which was just 50 kms before Srinagar.

In this city there was Christian Mission & Convent, where the tribal animals did what they do. All sisters, except one was killed. Her eyewitness account, given several years later, is available on net.

Pathans led by Pakistan Army officers spent two days sacking Baramulla. They were distrustful even of Muslim population in Baramulla. They did not eat the food given by Muslims suspecting it may be poisoned but instead looted /killed/roasted their goats for food. They did not spare even Muslim women from their rapacity. See the report of Margaret Burke White (an American journalist present in Kashmir in 1947) at [2].

Srinagar (25th to 27th Oct):

While Pathans & Pakistan Army were busy 50 kms away in Baramulla, seeing the friendly & brotherly conduct of Pakistanis, Maharaja signed Instrument of Accession to India on 25th Oct, One of the witnesses to the Instrument was Sheikh Abdullah, the leader of Congress in Kashmir, who had been freed by Maharaja as a pre-condition by Nehru. Accession was approved by Lord Mountbatten (Governor General of India) and by Gandhi as well.

It seems Maharaja was not terribly impressed by Jinnah's or Pakistan's strong desire to give independence to Kashmir! So he signed for India.

Indian Action & the Sisters:

First Indian military action came only after signing. Indian Army landed at Srinagar Airport on 26th morning, because when the pilot Biju Patnaik circles it, the landing strip was free. Kashmir valley was saved because (i) as Kuldip Nayar has said, the supreme sacrifices made by the Missionaries in Convent, and (i) Pakistan Army & their Pathans entertained themselves for two days - 25th & 26th Oct - with mayhem in Baramulla.

Pakistan's non-compliance with UN Resolution:

In my view, the real reason for Pakistan's not meeting the conditions put in United Nations Resolution was simple. Pakistan was sure that it will lose plebiscite despite Muslim majority. What else one can expect after such brutal treatment of all in Kashmir? Pakistan's conduct in 1947 was no different from what it did Bangladesh in 1971, though Bangladesh was on a grander-scale.

References:

[1] How tribesmen took on a maharaja's army
[2] Memoirs of a survivor
[3] VICTIMS OF MASSACRE, 22nd OCTOBER 1947 - Black Day
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
19,771
SoCal
#49
Excellent analysis, Rajeev! :)

BTW, India should have completely expelled Pakistan from all of Kashmir (by continuing the war) instead of prematurely going to the UN.
 

Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,585
India
#50
Can Article 370 actually be removed?
Article 370 could be removed but only Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) supports it while opposition Indian national Congress is still against it, BJP still don't have a majority in upper house of the Parliament the Rajya Sabha. I don't see it getting repealed in near future. Within Jammu and Kashmir itself, Bharatiya Janata Party has a strong political support in Jammu and Ladakh regions, while regional parties are strong in Kashmir valley.

Also the insurgency in Kashmir is only confined to tiny Kashmir valley which is hardly 15% of the entire land area of the state and around half of the population, within Kashmir valley there are groups like Shina, Kashmiri Shias, Gujjar-Bakarwal who has completely stayed away from insurgency. Jammu and Kashmir is religiously and ethnically very diverse where Kashmiris are the largest ethnic group followed by Dogras of Jammu. Pakistan could hardly make a breakthrough through by inspiring Wahabi inspired insurgency in Kashmir valley.

I think western media hardly tell you about that there are other regions Jammu and Ladakh which has hardly faced any violence in all these years of violence in Jammu and Kashmir.
 
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