Were there ever any movements to create separate ethnic groups for the southern Chinese?

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,055
SoCal
#1
Here's a map of the various Chinese languages:



As you can tell, southern China has several of its own unique Chinese languages--though it's possible that this might gradually be changing as a result of China becoming a more modern country. Anyway, what I'm wondering is if there were ever any movements to create separate ethnic groups (or separate nationalists, if you will) for the southern Chinese.

I know that Russian nationalists are displeased by the fact that three separate ethnic groups and nationalisms (Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian) have emerged from the traditional lands of Kievan Rus. Likewise, Romanian nationalists would probably be displeased by the existence of Moldovan nationalism. In turn, I'm wondering if there were ever nationalistic movements among the southern Chinese which advocated the creation of separate ethnicities for them (as opposed to a general Han Chinese ethnicity).

Does anyone have any information in regards to this?
 
Apr 2017
1,505
U.S.A.
#2
Mandarin wasn't the original language of China. It was created as a lingua franca for china based on a northern dialect. Its success in use has spread throughout China, with the south being the last holdout. So various Chinese language groups considered themselves Chinese long before Mandarin was widespread. Your question about a movement to be non-Chinese would be like asking if there is a movement in India for people to be non-Indian.
 
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May 2009
1,310
#3
They're already recognized as unique ethnicities. Officially China contains 56 ethnic groups including the Han majority. That language map doesn't really reflect the ethnic situation because most of those languages are spoken by multiple ethnicites (including Han Chinese). The Chinese colonization of the south was a long process that took centuries, and during that time many indigenous groups continued to live among the Chinese. Some were absorbed into general Chinese culture, others continued to live in tribal enclaves. I think one of the most well-known pre-Han indigenous groups of China was the Yue. They lived all along the Chinese coast down into southeast Asia (in fact the name Vietnam means "southern Yue") and there is a lot written about them. Over time their descendants formed new tribes. There were inland mountain tribes too like the Ba tribes of Sichuan, and later the Yi and Klao tribes in the same area.
 
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Jun 2012
7,409
Malaysia
#4
Mandarin wasn't the original language of China. It was created as a lingua franca for china based on a northern dialect. Its success in use has spread throughout China, with the south being the last holdout. So various Chinese language groups considered themselves Chinese long before Mandarin was widespread. Your question about a movement to be non-Chinese would be like asking if there is a movement in India for people to be non-Indian.
I would actually be tempted to see post-partition Pakistan (i. e. West & East Pakistan) as the result of a former movement among some factions in India to be 'non-Indian'. Even taking account of the fact that some then West Pakistanis actually consider West Pakistan (i. e. today's Pakistan) as 'the original India'.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,055
SoCal
#5
I would actually be tempted to see post-partition Pakistan (i. e. West & East Pakistan) as the result of a former movement among some factions in India to be non-Indian. Even taking account of the fact that some Pakistanis actually consider Pakistan (today's Pakistan) as 'the original India'.
Not just Pakistan, but Bangladesh (though Bangladesh was a part of Pakistan up to 1971).
 
May 2017
278
China
#6
Mandarin wasn't the original language of China. It was created as a lingua franca for china based on a northern dialect. Its success in use has spread throughout China, with the south being the last holdout. So various Chinese language groups considered themselves Chinese long before Mandarin was widespread. Your question about a movement to be non-Chinese would be like asking if there is a movement in India for people to be non-Indian.

what? mandarin and hakka language originated from the same northern dialect, and northern dialect was the main branch of qin state dialect (which later become qin dynasty, the very first chinese imperial dynasty). how can you say mandarin are not original language of china?

Origin_of_Chinese_Languages.jpg
 
Last edited:
May 2017
278
China
#7
Here's a map of the various Chinese languages:



As you can tell, southern China has several of its own unique Chinese languages--though it's possible that this might gradually be changing as a result of China becoming a more modern country. Anyway, what I'm wondering is if there were ever any movements to create separate ethnic groups (or separate nationalists, if you will) for the southern Chinese.

I know that Russian nationalists are displeased by the fact that three separate ethnic groups and nationalisms (Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian) have emerged from the traditional lands of Kievan Rus. Likewise, Romanian nationalists would probably be displeased by the existence of Moldovan nationalism. In turn, I'm wondering if there were ever nationalistic movements among the southern Chinese which advocated the creation of separate ethnicities for them (as opposed to a general Han Chinese ethnicity).

Does anyone have any information in regards to this?
you arguing about chinese dialect, right? there is, it is cantonese one from hong kong and guandong
_77959452_77959451.jpg
130701231925-hong-kong-july-1-protest-4-story-top.jpg

picture above show cantonese especially from hong kong dont consider themself as chinese but hongkonger or simply as cantonese.

sadly for the westerner and the rest of the world see those cantonese as chinese.
 
Last edited:
Apr 2017
1,505
U.S.A.
#8
what? mandarin and hakka language originated from the same northern dialect, and northern dialect was the main branch of qin state dialect (which later become qin dynasty, the very first chinese imperial dynasty). how can you say mandarin are not original language of china?

View attachment 17131
Standard Chinese (Mandarin) is based on the Beijing dialect (which was officially chosen in 1932) of Mandarin. Their are many dialects of mandarin, some are not mutually intelligible, which is why an official variant was picked.
 
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Jun 2012
7,409
Malaysia
#9
picture above show cantonese especially from hong kong dont consider themself as chinese but hongkonger or simply as cantonese.

sadly for the westerner and the rest of the world see those cantonese as chinese.
Interesting. So, what you're saying, more or less, is that Cantonese do not really want to be a part of China.
 
Likes: Futurist
Jan 2015
150
new york
#10
just a portion of cantonese speaker from hk not the whole population of the province. also cantonese took pride in the fact that their dialect is closest to the one spoken by the emperor qin shi huang.
 
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