West Europe has a BIG debt problem. Not the USA.

Oct 2013
14,051
Europix
#31
... and you take people from the other side of the World to work (and live) here.
the "funniest" part in all that isn't the " ... you take ... " bs part, but that it comes (again .... ) from the Balkans.

You know, that place that ceased to exist for a couple of months. For a couple of months, Germany found itself having a common border with Turkey: refugees, immigrants, migrants crossed the Turkish boarder and found themselves directly in Germany. Nothing, nada, niente, ništa, between the two countries. Not even a black hole.

Yap. "Funny".
 
Aug 2014
951
United States of America
#32
There's a big gap between your evidence, which consists of a single unsourced chart, and your conclusions, which are xenophobic. You seem to bridge the gap with invisible reasoning. Any who dare trust in it will fall into the chasm, and good riddance I say.
 
Oct 2013
14,051
Europix
#33
Generous welfare only makes debt if you can't afford it. It is blatantly obvious that Germany can afford it - otherwise they would not be paying down their debt while maintaining their welfare programs.
True.

Although it wouldn't hurt to see what we understand by "generous".

The "social protection", (as it's called in EU), represented (as average) 19,1 % of GDP in 2016, as follows:

- 'old age' (mainly pensions) : 10.2 % of GDP
- 'Sickness and disability': 2.7 % of GDP
- 'family and children': 1.7 % of GDP
- 'unemployment': 1.3 % of GDP
- 'Housing': 0.5 % of GDP

To clarify a bit more, on country levels:

Finland - 25.6%
France, Denmark, Austria, Italy, Greece, Sweden, Belgium, Norway – at least 20%
Lithuania, Romania, Latvia, Malta, Czech Republic, Bulgaria - less than 13%
Ireland - 9.9%
 
Aug 2014
4,342
Australia
#34
Actually, that's not it. Put simply, there is "good debt" and "bad debt".....
So, according to you, Germany's debt is "good debt" because it was racked up trying to stave off the effects of the GFC and had nothing to do with their welfare programs. Germany currently has a budget surplus and is paying off that debt while maintaining their welfare programs.
 
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tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,218
#36
So, according to you, Germany's debt is "good debt" because it was racked up trying to stave off the effects of the GFC and had nothing to do with their welfare programs. Germany currently has a budget surplus and is paying off that debt while maintaining their welfare programs.
That's really not what I said... One would have to look at the structure of german spending and debt... .Germany has for example allowed its infrastructure to decay

The last country you'll ever guess has a major infrastructure problem

Germany also has the famous "1 euro" jobs....

and has had to cut investment because of welfare spending

Germany to Cut Public-Sector Investment as Welfare Spending Rises

even though a while back it severely cut social spending

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl.../gIQAd9HCcJ_story.html?utm_term=.33d2779d0656

Then-Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder staked his political legacy on a painful series of reforms that slashed benefits for people who were unemployed for more than a year, aiming to push them back into jobs. Other reforms privatized portions of the pension system, cutting guaranteed benefits. More recently, the retirement age was pushed to 67, from 65.
Unions made sacrifices, too: Wages stayed largely flat for the past decade even as industry profits and government tax receipts rose, making Germany one of the West’s most competitive exporters. This was helped along by the euro zone, which made German products cheaper abroad than they were under the Deutschmark.
 

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,328
Sydney
#37
So is the US debt "good" or "bad" because there is plenty of it

as for the public spending , it seems to be an exercise in political flying trapeze ,
maybe next year , this year budget will be passed but I'm not holding my breath
 

VHS

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,329
Florania
#38
That's really not what I said... One would have to look at the structure of german spending and debt... .Germany has for example allowed its infrastructure to decay

The last country you'll ever guess has a major infrastructure problem

Germany also has the famous "1 euro" jobs....

and has had to cut investment because of welfare spending

Germany to Cut Public-Sector Investment as Welfare Spending Rises

even though a while back it severely cut social spending

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl.../gIQAd9HCcJ_story.html?utm_term=.33d2779d0656

Then-Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder staked his political legacy on a painful series of reforms that slashed benefits for people who were unemployed for more than a year, aiming to push them back into jobs. Other reforms privatized portions of the pension system, cutting guaranteed benefits. More recently, the retirement age was pushed to 67, from 65.
Unions made sacrifices, too: Wages stayed largely flat for the past decade even as industry profits and government tax receipts rose, making Germany one of the West’s most competitive exporters. This was helped along by the euro zone, which made German products cheaper abroad than they were under the Deutschmark.
This reminds me of my old thread "the developed world dilemma".
 
Dec 2011
2,160
#39
It should be noted that all mentions of GDP in this discussion should be preceded by the word "annual". In comparing a country's debt with GDP, you are comparing the value of debt with the amount of monetary value created in that country per year, NOT the amount of money that country has or ever will have. A better comparison is probably with assets. The USA has total assets about 15 times that of annual GDP.

Many people take on a debt, in the form of a mortgage, of 5 times, or more, of their annual income.
 
Feb 2015
111
south Slavic guy
#40
the "funniest" part in all that isn't the " ... you take ... " bs part, but that it comes (again .... ) from the Balkans.

You know, that place that ceased to exist for a couple of months. For a couple of months, Germany found itself having a common border with Turkey: refugees, immigrants, migrants crossed the Turkish boarder and found themselves directly in Germany. Nothing, nada, niente, ništa, between the two countries. Not even a black hole.

Yap. "Funny".
If I'm going to criticize the Balkans (and my country in particular) I can absolutely destroy it and it won't even be nice for reading. But that's not my point. I doubt anyone wants to hear about our problems. I can bash it, you can bash it, I don't care at all. I have already given up on the idea that this place can be a prosperous place one day, MAINLY due to bad genetical material. And a mixture of very different interests and habits.

My thread is for the Western World which, in some ways, is making even BIGGER mistakes than us, balkan people.

You know, exactly because I was born and have been living here for a good 30 years, I can tell you from experience that multiculturalism DOES NOT work!! It never really worked.

Multiculturalism has been here since the beginning of time basically. And I can tell you that it DOESN'T WORK!!

The West falls for it just because it's very NEW to it and its DISASTROUS consequences haven't been fully felt yet. 40-50 years is nothing for history in hindsight. The debt is only one side of a multi-sided problem that is immigration.
And as somebody already mentioned. All this unskilled workforce in the future will be totally useless because of automatization and development.

It's a big burden on the economy.