What are the reasons.

LatinoEuropa

Ad Honorem
Oct 2015
5,222
Matosinhos Portugal
What are the reasons.

Spain does not deliver to Portugal Olivenza and does not deliver Ceuta and other territories to Morocco as England deliver Gibraltar to Spain.

I would like to see your opinions and suggestions here.
 

Linschoten

Ad Honoris
Aug 2010
16,214
Welsh Marches
There are no reasons, the contrast merely shows the irrationality of a certain kind of nationalistic assertiveness.
 
Mar 2018
870
UK
Plenty of English people live in Gibraltar and want to live under the British government rather than the Spanish one. I think Gibraltar has had a whole bunch of of referenda and always choose the UK. Same thing with the Falklands

It seems to me that cultural links and self-determination are better ways to decide which country should rule which bits of land than mere geography.
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,046
Portugal
Plenty of English people live in Gibraltar and want to live under the British government rather than the Spanish one. I think Gibraltar has had a whole bunch of of referenda and always choose the UK. Same thing with the Falklands

It seems to me that cultural links and self-determination are better ways to decide which country should rule which bits of land than mere geography.
I think that there were two referendums, one made when Spain was a dictatorship under Franco, and the other was about mutual sovereignty, not about the transference of the territory to Spain. Not that a new referendum would change much, I believe, even if the Brexit may have some influence.

About Olivença, Olivença is de facto Spanish, even if under the last treaty, is de Jure, Portuguese. Not that matters, today, its inhabitants are Spanish.

The question of Ceuta and Mellila are today similar, as far as I know a referendum is not on the table, and I don’t think that it would change much.
 

Linschoten

Ad Honoris
Aug 2010
16,214
Welsh Marches
Gibraltar has a peculiar population of its own, they can only be regarded really as Gibraltarians and hardly any of them want to be subject to Spanish control in any way; the territory is largely self-governing, more a protectorate than a colony. From a legal perspective the Spanish claim is very weak, indeed almost entirely unfounded, and the British government is rightly unwilling to even to discuss it as long as the Spanish insist on treating this as an exclusively bilateral manner, excluding the Gibraltarians themselves from any involvement in consideration of their own future.
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,046
Portugal
[...]as long as the Spanish insist on treating this as an exclusively bilateral manner, excluding the Gibraltarians themselves from any involvement in consideration of their own future.
What was the last Spanish proposal on this matter?
 

LatinoEuropa

Ad Honorem
Oct 2015
5,222
Matosinhos Portugal
I think that there were two referendums, one made when Spain was a dictatorship under Franco, and the other was about mutual sovereignty, not about the transference of the territory to Spain. Not that a new referendum would change much, I believe, even if the Brexit may have some influence.

About Olivença, Olivença is de facto Spanish, even if under the last treaty, is de Jure, Portuguese. Not that matters, today, its inhabitants are Spanish.

The question of Ceuta and Mellila are today similar, as far as I know a referendum is not on the table, and I don’t think that it would change much.
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Desculpe amigo Tulius Olivença é território português, foi anexado por Espanha, guerra das laranjas não se trata de ser nacionalista,somente falo de história

Sorry Tulius Olivença is Portuguese territory, was annexed by Spain, war of the oranges is not about being nationalistic, I only speak of history


Olivenza - Wikipedia
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,046
Portugal
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Desculpe amigo Tulius Olivença é território português, foi anexado por Espanha, guerra das laranjas não se trata de ser nacionalista,somente falo de história

Sorry Tulius Olivença is Portuguese territory, was annexed by Spain, war of the oranges is not about being nationalistic, I only speak of history

Olivenza - Wikipedia
Yes, I know that we disagree on this, I think we already talked about it in other thread. Legally you are right, if you are mentioning the last treaty between the two states, the thing is that it was some 200 years ago, and today “the facto” Olivença is Spanish, and its inhabitants feel Spanish. I was there some times, and I don’t have much doubts that if we would advance to a referendum, the Portuguese option would loose with a difference that would be almost humiliating.
 
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LatinoEuropa

Ad Honorem
Oct 2015
5,222
Matosinhos Portugal
Tulius Olivença was Portuguese territory for over 600 years was stolen by Spain 200 years ago with the war of the oranges.
You say that its inhabitants feel Spanish, not forgetting that their forebears are Portuguese. I have every right to say, if Spain claims Gibraltar there is England that is Spanish territory.Portugal has every right to claim to Spain the Olivença which is Portuguese territory like Ceuta - Tanger or else Spain to deliver Ceuta Tanger and other territories in the from North Africa to Morocco.

I just talk about history. Só falo de história

Tulius Olivença foi território português por mais de 600 anos foi roubada por espanha há 200 anos com a guerra das laranjas.
Dizes que seus habitantes se sentem espanhois, não esquecendo que os seus antecendentes são portugueses. Eu tenho todo o direito em dizer, se a Espanha reclama Gibraltar há Inglaterra que é território Espanhol.Portugal tem todo o direito de reclamar á Espanha a Olivença que é território português como Ceuta - Tanger ou então a Espanha entregar Ceuta Tanger e outros territórios no norte de Africa á Marrocos.
A Espanha fica na europa e eu conheço só uma Espanha é a que fala o espanhol castelhano o resto são colónias de espanha com outros idiomas Basco Catatã etc.