What are your thoughts on this proposal for Israeli-Palestinian peace?

Mar 2019
1,535
KL
1. the tolerance of Muslim states can be overstated. There was a number of anti-Jewish riots in al-Andalus.
2. all of that happened in the Middle Ages. It has no bearing on the situation today.


So, what you're trying to tell me is that the Arabs were willing to tolerate Jews as long as the Arabs remained the masters and the dominant group, but as soon as the Jews wanted a state of their own, they tried to crush them? Besides, what you said is not really true.
1929 Hebron massacre - Wikipedia
yeah compared to europeans, for jews, arab lands or islamic countries were a safe heaven for them, jews were persecuted for two thousand years by the europeans starting from the romans and ending at nazi era, so jews were not hated by the muslims/arabs, as i said, until the issue of israel, there was no grudge against jews by the muslims/arabs

People have definitely been badly mistreated on both sides. The expulsion of Jews from many Arab states in modern times cannot in the least be excused by any tolerance shown 1000 years ago.

As I said before, compensation of some kind needs to be given, as needed, to people with genuine grievances arising from bad treatment in this situation. It will cost many billions, but then so does war dragging on for over half a century.
i think you should first try to read your own history/ assuming u r from europe, how badly jews were treated in europe before calling muslim protection an ''excuse'' i dont think there is infact any ''excuse'' for the genocides of Israel, especially using ''expulsion excuse'' which i have never heard of, jews were known to have left for israel voluntarily after creation of israel, if arabs did expel them, where they all eventually ended up. calling expulsion as an excuse for massacre is inhumane to say the least, these scenarios can never be compared with each other.

i think that western/european media tries to make muslims or arabs the devil against the jews and present jews as innocent/persecuted people by the muslims/arabs, the western media should bring the history forward how the jews were treated in europe, how jews asked for muslim help when they were butchered in spain and how jews got protected by muslims against your own people, i dont think thats an excuse, thats just plain history and facts mate.

do i need to show you jewish videos how they feel welcomed in muslim lands even today and how they get loathed still in europe?

as i said, the bad blood against jews today is solely because of their actions and their crimes, and not because of inherent hatred against them by muslims like the europeans/christians.

as i stated you can jut watch english/western movies to find the truth, merchant of venice, and The physician for starters, it would elaborate where jews were well treated.

regards
 
Mar 2019
1,535
KL
@Ashoka maurya
1066 Granada massacre - Wikipedia
1517 Hebron attacks - Wikipedia
Allahdad - Wikipedia

Muslim countries were not really paradise for Jews before the 20th century as you seem to imply.
Golden age of Jewish culture in Spain - Wikipedia

as i stated jews were nurtured by muslims and they attained a very good status in the muslim countries, jews were exceptionally well treated by the muslims/arabs

you can just go and try to watch movies like The physician, you will get my point.

regards
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,542
Republika Srpska
Yes, Jews were generally treated good, but there were rather noticeable exceptions. I listed some of them, there are more. And I would not say they were EXCEPTIONALLY well treated, they were still dhimmi and thus second class citizens.
 
May 2015
1,056
The Netherlands
And Israel and actually no one should recognize "Palestine". What will happen if Isreal does so? It would relinquish control and then what? What happened in Gaza after Israel left it in 2005? Make no mistake, if the Palestinians were able to actually behave and built something, Israeli hardliners would have no valid argument to reject recognizing "Palestine".
The opposite can of course be said as well. If Israel was able to behave itself (i.e. stop denying Palestinians their basic human rights and acting in accordance with international law for once), hardliners like Hamas would lose most of their support. The problem is of course that Hamas losing power is the last thing Israel wants. The hardliners on both sides need each other and Israel's policies are very much geared towards keeping Hamas in power in Gaza.

However, Palestinians haven't shown their ability to a) suppress terrorism and radicalism, 2) soften anti-semitism, and 3) to build a sound foundation for their future nation starting with their government's monopoly on the use of force. If they succeed in doing so, yes, Israel and the world should recognize them. The ball is in their court, but instead of playing it, they are leaving it be, complaining to the referee.
The situation in the West Bank suggests otherwise. The PA has many faults, but it does a decent job of maintaining law and order and providing state services in the so-called self-governed parts of the West Bank, given its limited resources and the complex framework of the occupation. At least the Palestinian leadership is trying to act in accordance with the Oslo Accords. That's more than can be said about Israel.
 
Mar 2019
1,535
KL
Yes, Jews were generally treated good, but there were rather noticeable exceptions. I listed some of them, there are more. And I would not say they were EXCEPTIONALLY well treated, they were still dhimmi and thus second class citizens.
yup, you are just trying to mix the wordings, jews were exceptionally treated in the islamic lands

as i said again, try to watch your own media and how they state the very reality of muslim treatment towards the jews

there is an exception for every rule, there must have been muslims who persecuted the jews, but then, this doesnt translate to general rule of muslims persecuting the jews.

generally the muslim lands were always a safe heaven for the jews. probably every land except the european lands jews were also welcomed in india for instance, they were also welcomed in central asia, china etc, europe is where jews were persecuted the most.

regards
 
Mar 2019
1,535
KL
its because its a western media, and its portraying a part of history and its portraying muslims treating jews well. so it cannot be a muslim/arab propaganda to say the least, and given the present political situation portraying muslims treating jews well only makes the point very clear.

regards
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,542
Republika Srpska
its because its a western media, and its portraying a part of history and its portraying muslims treating jews well.

regards
It is still just a movie and not a historical source. There were massacres of Jews by Muslims even before Zionism. But if that was not the case it still seems that the Arabs were only willing to tolerate Jews as their inferiors, not as equals.
 

Menshevik

Ad Honorem
Dec 2012
9,279
here
The situation in the West Bank suggests otherwise. The PA has many faults, but it does a decent job of maintaining law and order and providing state services in the so-called self-governed parts of the West Bank, given its limited resources and the complex framework of the occupation.
It does? Your standards must be low.

Corruption in the Palestinian Authority

"Government jobs, which are prized due to the weak private economy, are awarded on the basis of cronyism rather than merit"

"While there is a high import duty on automobiles, it is often escaped by big shots"

"The amount of wasted funds is enormous....."

"Moneys are spent on non-existent entities, and here’s the best example: “salaries and raises were paid to employees of an airline company that no longer exists on the ground.”

"Finally, there is the case of the Presidential Palace (pictured above). This giant edifice—50,000 square feet for the Palace itself plus another 40,000 in other buildings—cost the bankrupt Palestinian Authority $17.5 million. The public uproar forced President Mahmoud Abbas to convert the edifice into a public library. As the report states, “Honorable as it may sound to convert the presidential palace into a public library, it remains to be the epitome of misuse of public funds as well as a bad example of lack of prioritization.”

World Report 2018: Rights Trends in Israel and Palestine

"PA security services arrested dozens of journalists, activists and opposition members. In September, the PA detained for seven days human rights defender Issa Amro over a Facebook post. Amro also faces charges in Israeli military court for his role in a protest. In June, the PA issued a new cybercrime law, granting the government vast authority to control online activity and blocked access in the West Bank to at least 29 news websites affiliated with Hamas and Fatah factions opposed to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. Complaints persisted of torture and ill-treatment carried out in the West Bank by PA security services. Arbitrary arrests and torture violate legal obligations that the state of Palestine assumed after it ratified the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the Convention against Torture in 2014."

"The Independent Commission for Human Rights in Palestine (ICHR), a statutory commission charged with monitoring human rights compliance by the Palestinian authorities, received 205 complaints of torture and ill-treatment by PA security forces...."

World Report 2019: Rights Trends in Israel and Palestine

"In April, the PA amended a cybercrime law passed the previous year following complaints by civil society groups. The amended law continues to grant the government vast authority to monitor and restrict online activity. The PA also blocked more than two dozen websites affiliated with Hamas and rival Fatah factions."


"In March, the PA repealed legal provisions that stopped prosecutions of alleged rapists, or allowed convicted rapists to escape punishment, if they married their victims. The PA also prohibited reducing sentences for serious crimes against women including murder done in the name of “honor.” However, discrimination against women in personal status laws and gaps in accountability for domestic violence persisted."

LGBT rights in the State of Palestine - Wikipedia

"A gay Palestinian man called Saif said that "...local Palestinian Authority police are aware and keep files on him and other homosexuals, blackmailing them into working as spies and informants." He reports stories “of guys being called at random and told to come into [Palestinian Authority] police stations, with threats their families would be told about their sexuality if they didn't show up."
 
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