What caused France to shift from being an eager Crusading power to being an Ottoman ally within a time period of several centuries?

Kirialax

Ad Honorem
Dec 2009
4,899
Blachernai
Very interesting question... What´s to be a Turk? I found turks in Central Asia... and I know Dervishes named British Soldiers as "turks"....I´ve read some Huns....were turks!!!! or Bulgarian... or Ottomans.. or Seldjucids.. or Kiu Kiu....

A good question... Who are the Turks?
The term is problematic. For example, in medieval Greek the Hungarians are "Turkoi", (and of course, Magyars to themselves). My main point, however, is that there is no single Turk polity in the near east in the early thirteenth century so it's rather hard to address the attitude of the crusaders (as if they were unified!) towards them.
 
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martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,739
Spain
The term is problematic. For example, in medieval Greek the Hungarians are "Turkoi", (and of course, Magyars to themselves). My main point, however, is that there is no single Turk polity in the near east in the early thirteenth century so it's rather hard to address the attitude of the crusaders (as if they were unified!) towards them.
I agree with you...I had an hungarian sweet heart much time ago.. and she told me Hungarian-Finnish and Turks are matched! she told me not trouble to her hear turkish language!

I guess Turks in 13th Century they were Seldjucids... not ottomans at all... (I must to confess I don´t know the difference between Seljudcids and Ottoman Turks!!!).. and by other side... Ottoman´s enemy number on.... Timur Lang.... he also was a Turk!!!!

So.. I guess "Turk" is a kind of word used by people as a "bag"... under this word we name a set of differente peoples, cultures, ethnicities etc...
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,461
SoCal
The term is problematic. For example, in medieval Greek the Hungarians are "Turkoi", (and of course, Magyars to themselves). My main point, however, is that there is no single Turk polity in the near east in the early thirteenth century so it's rather hard to address the attitude of the crusaders (as if they were unified!) towards them.
I was talking about the Sultanate of Rum here.
 
May 2011
516
UK
have you considered economic reason? The Ottomans controlled the silk road and the trade with them became very important for states in western europe
 
Oct 2011
488
Croatia
What caused France to shift from being an eager Crusading power to being an Ottoman ally within a time period of several centuries? In the Middle Ages, France (even sometimes French Kings--and certainly some French nobles) eagerly participated in various Crusades to reconquer the Holy Land from the Muslims. However, in the 1500s and beyond, France appears to have become a steadfast Ottoman ally in spite of the fact that the Ottomans were Muslims and controlling the Holy Land. What exactly caused France's change in attitudes in regards to this?

The most obvious explanation to me seems that the spread of Hapsburg power caused France to conclude that the Hapburgs were a greater problem than the Ottomans were and thus make a deal with the Ottomans to ally against the Hapsburgs. However, were there any other factors that contributed to this change in French attitudes towards Muslim rule in the Holy Land?

Any thoughts on this?
Geopolitics. Back when France was eager crusading power, Turks had first been a problem of Roman Empire, then of Hungarian-Croatian kingdom. Neither of which bordered France, and were thus not a problem to French rulers. Hence, French could afford to think of greater picture. But when Ottomans gobbled up Balkans, and Hungary and Croatia joined Habsburg Monarchy... suddenly, Ottomans were direct neighbours to perhaps the greatest French rival - one which, at the height of their power, literally surrounded France on all land borders. Thereafter, any help against the Ottomans would help Habsburgs, and thus directly endanger France.

Another reason is likely the decreasing importance of religion in European politics. People consider Thirty Years' War to be a religious war, but the most powerful power on "Protestant" side of things was - Catholic France. Why? Explained above. National interests were taking precendence above religious / ideological issues.
 
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johnincornwall

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
7,813
Cornwall
You can't equate across centuries as if it changed last week. As stated the whole geopolilitcal situation was entirely different after 'a few centuries'. As was France. As was the Middle East.

In fact there's hardly any connection at all!
 
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Oct 2012
837
Well.. I can answer but I just don´t do it.. simply...don´t read historian but only contemporanean sources.... what people thought about Frenchmen in 16th century? That´s the reason because they supported Islam
If we read only contemporary sources it is certain that there were real witches in 16th century Europe . All the court documents and sworn testimony, you cannot deny it, allthough modern so called "histroians" try their best to deny the fact.
 
Nov 2014
1,669
Birmingham, UK
If we read only contemporary sources it is certain that there were real witches in 16th century Europe . All the court documents and sworn testimony, you cannot deny it, allthough modern so called "histroians" try their best to deny the fact.
o_O