What caused France to shift from being an eager Crusading power to being an Ottoman ally within a time period of several centuries?

Valens

Ad Honorem
Feb 2014
8,303
Colonia Valensiana
#21
As far as I'm aware French alliance with the Ottomans in the XVI century, in particular, was a part of their anti-Hapsburg, anti-Spanish strategy. Suleyman I was an enemy of Charles V and their interests in the Mediterranean clashed, which made it prudent for King Francois I to ally himself with the Ottomans as a good counterbalance to Charles V.
 

Scaeva

Ad Honorem
Oct 2012
5,630
#22
And the HRE wasn't a French rival in the Middle Ages?
They could be at times.

One of the most historically impactful military victories in the medieval period was between France and the HRE.

The Battle of Bouvines was fought on 27 July 1214 near the town of Bouvines in the County of Flanders. It was the concluding battle of the Anglo-French War of 1213–1214. A French army of approximately 7,000 men commanded by King Philip Augustus defeated an Allied army of approximately 9,000 commanded by Holy Roman Emperor Otto IV.

In early 1214, a coalition was assembled against King Philip Augustus of France, consisting of Otto IV, King John of England, Count Ferrand of Flanders, Duke Henry I of Brabant, Count William I of Holland, Duke Theobald I of Lorraine, and Duke Henry III of Limburg. Its objective was to reverse the conquests made by Philip earlier in his reign.

After initial manoeuvring in late July, battle was offered near Bouvines on 27 July. The long allied column deployed slowly into battle order, leaving the Allies at a disadvantage. The superior discipline and order of the French knights allowed them to carry out a series of devastating charges, shattering the Flemish knights on the allied left wing. In the centre, the Allied knights and infantry under Otto enjoyed initial success, scattering the French urban infantry and nearly killing Philip. A counterattack by French knights smashed the isolated Allied infantry and Otto's entire centre division fell back. Otto fled the battle and his knightly followers were defeated by the French knights, who went on to capture the Imperial eagle standard. With the Allied centre and left wing routed, only the soldiers of the right wing under Renaud of Boulogne and William de Longespee held on. They were killed, captured or driven from the field. A pursuit was not conducted as it was nearly dark.

The crushing French victory dashed English and Flemish hopes of regaining lost territories. Frederick IIHohenstaufen deposed Otto as emperor after the battle. King John was forced to agree to the Magna Carta in 1215 by his discontented barons and hand over English-occupied Anjou to Philip in a peace settlement. Counts Ferrand, Renaud and Longespee were captured and imprisoned. The balance of power in Europe shifted, with the popes of the 13th century increasingly seeking the support of a powerful France.
Battle of Bouvines - Wikipedia
 
Feb 2014
315
Miami
#23
The Crusaders did conclude agreements with the Muslims. For example it is probable that some sort of contact between the Crusaders and the Fatimids existed during the First Crusade. In 1108 Crusader Antioch was allied with Muslim Aleppo. Muslim ruler of Damascus, Toghtekin was allied with king Baldwin I of Jerusalem in 1115. In the 1140s Crusader Jerusalem was in an alliance with Muslim Damascus in order to oppose the Zengids. There are not the only examples. Of course, any alliance with the "heathens" was viewed as controversial. Sometimes the Crusaders justified them by citing their low numbers and claiming that such alliances were neccessary for the survival of Crusader states.
Yes, the fatimids were allies of the eastern Roman Empire. The fatimids wanted jeurselam as part of their assistance in helping Both reclaim land lost to the Turks. The romans lost control of the crusaders who butchered men from any side and performed genocide even against Levantine Christians
 
Likes: Futurist
Jan 2013
974
Toronto, Canada
#24
The Crusaders did conclude agreements with the Muslims. For example it is probable that some sort of contact between the Crusaders and the Fatimids existed during the First Crusade. In 1108 Crusader Antioch was allied with Muslim Aleppo. Muslim ruler of Damascus, Toghtekin was allied with king Baldwin I of Jerusalem in 1115. In the 1140s Crusader Jerusalem was in an alliance with Muslim Damascus in order to oppose the Zengids. There are not the only examples. Of course, any alliance with the "heathens" was viewed as controversial. Sometimes the Crusaders justified them by citing their low numbers and claiming that such alliances were neccessary for the survival of Crusader states.
Foreign fighters focussed on the religious conflict. The locals, including former crusaders, usually reverted to realpolitik as soon as they left. This was equally true of Christians and Muslims.
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,638
Spain
#25
If we read only contemporary sources it is certain that there were real witches in 16th century Europe . All the court documents and sworn testimony, you cannot deny it, allthough modern so called "histroians" try their best to deny the fact.
Well.. Inquisition didn´t believe in witches... sorry.... only one case in 400 years....
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,200
SoCal
#26
Yes, the fatimids were allies of the eastern Roman Empire. The fatimids wanted jeurselam as part of their assistance in helping Both reclaim land lost to the Turks. The romans lost control of the crusaders who butchered men from any side and performed genocide even against Levantine Christians
I think that the logic was that God can sort out the good ones from the bad ones in the afterlife and that thus it's OK to be indiscriminate for a Crusader when he goes on a killing rampage. :(
 
Jun 2012
7,420
Malaysia
#29
So, someone with the power to declare a war could just decide to declare a war, and then subsequently go on to say, 'Hey, it's war, so it's okay for me & my soldiers to do anything we want, to get anything we want.'
 
Likes: Futurist

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