What do you think Heaven is like?

arkteia

Ad Honorem
Nov 2012
4,723
Seattle
Say, you are expecting something nice (a proposal, a wedding, having a child, getting the job you covet).

Heaven is the picture of how it will happen - in your mind. As opposed to the reality. ;)

And seriously, I don't feel there is heaven or hell. Faith is ultimately about feeling. I wish I were able to feel it, but I can't.

But - I have met with some Christians whose perception of heaven is very cozy. They virtually call it "home" - where the ones who departed are waiting for them. It is mirror image of something they had here on Earth; it often leaves me puzzled (e.g., playing poker in the evening - is it really OK in heaven?).

If I had such a perception, I know I'd get mad because I'd be asking myself, will my grandma be an old woman, a child, or a young beauty? What about kids who died young - would they grow up in heaven? Etc, etc.

But these religious people have no such questions. They just say, "when I go home". In a way, it is good when a person has hope.
 
Apr 2017
722
Lemuria
A place of "positive" emotions. One heaven can be another hell. You need some kind of brainwashing to keep a place where the mood is positive all the time. Heaven and hell are clearly religious mechanism to control the mass. Reward and punishment.
 
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Jun 2016
1,860
England, 200 yards from Wales
Friends we are talking about what must be the most important issue of humanity. Which is what occurs when one dies. No one itt can know the answer to this. This "Evolution" is an idea , people say millions of years of evolution, evolution from what? Did Earth come from somewhere, how did Earth come about?

Btw for clarity, do either of you two believe in religion and do you believe in the afterlife?

I am very much laid back and relaxed in this topic. OTOH friends, whether we are Christian, Hindu or Atheists, one can not be offended by mere viewpoints. We have all seen it before, some Atheists and some Theists can not handle opposing viewpoints when it comes to this topic.

What can finally be said, this topic that the OP brings forth is a great topic but it is impossible to answer. What historians have shown is that religious leaders existed, and that is interesting. Various religions which claim to know the afterlife have leaders that have been proven to have lived centuries ago.
I quite agree, no-one can really know what happens (if anything). Yet you said "I believe in the Christian afterlife", if you can't know what happens how can you have a definite belief about it?
I don't think anyone is offended by opposing viewpoints, questioning them doesn't imply that. That's just discussion, surely the whole point of a forum.
Personally, for clarity if you like, regarding both god/gods and afterlife, as I said I agree with you, we can't know, there is no strong evidence for either, so I don't believe.
Evolution is not just an idea (any more than , for instance, plate tectonics) , it is an explanation of how life developed supported by vast amounts of good evidence.
How the Earth began is a matter for astronomy, not evolution.
 
Nov 2018
23
Montenegro
"'The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and dust [shall be] the serpent’s food. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,' says the LORD" (Isaiah 65:25).
 

JoanOfArc007

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
3,794
USA
I quite agree, no-one can really know what happens (if anything). Yet you said "I believe in the Christian afterlife", if you can't know what happens how can you have a definite belief about it?
I don't think anyone is offended by opposing viewpoints, questioning them doesn't imply that. That's just discussion, surely the whole point of a forum.
Personally, for clarity if you like, regarding both god/gods and afterlife, as I said I agree with you, we can't know, there is no strong evidence for either, so I don't believe.
Evolution is not just an idea (any more than , for instance, plate tectonics) , it is an explanation of how life developed supported by vast amounts of good evidence.
How the Earth began is a matter for astronomy, not evolution.
We all have beliefs whether perhaps they are religious or not religious. As for evolution, I know this to mean that humans have evolved from apes, question can be put forth how did this occur?

I for one as a Christian do believe in the Christian afterlife it is as they say a matter of faith. That said, also even a Christian alive today can not say what heaven or hell looks like.

There have been various miracles in human history , this lends to the view that religion is real.

In 500 years what if Scientists as a majority have a different take on evolution.

Evolution it seems is not as concrete as the history we all know, like for example the Japanese attacked pearl harbour on Dec 7th 1941, that happend there can be no doubt about that. We know fore sure that the US civil war ended in 1865, WW2 ended in 1945.
 

Dreamhunter

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
7,482
Malaysia
Where did the first humans on earth come from? Where did the first animals on earth come from. Where did all the plants come from.
Well, let's put it this way. There is currently no life form on the Moon, or Mars, or Saturn, or Jupiter. At least as far as our present level of scientific knowledge allow us to believe. Let's just imagine ourselves going forward by 20 million years say. To a time when there are life forms on one of them, or all of them, let's just say.

Which mechanism wud sound more likely for that to happen. Some all powerful archangel or deity visiting those places & physically, mechanically sculpting new life forms from the dust/soil there,? Or a very, very gradual formation of life forms - perhaps even spontaneous - when the conditions on those places become conducive to their initial formation?

One more thing, say on Earth humanity still somehow survives even to that time. Then they wud hv developed the technology to travel quite fast to Mars, Saturn, or Jupiter, by that time. And just imagine it, a bunch of human astronauts from Earth arriving on Saturn or Jupiter, one fine day, just as said all powerful archangel or deity was starting his life-form sculpting work there (If that was really the true mechanism). Now, is He going to chase our Earth astronauts away, lest they cause any disturbance to His work? Or perhaps He wud consider offering them the chance to help & participate in that first profound effort? Now, that wud be great teamwork.

Well, I am just imagining the possibilities.
 
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Dreamhunter

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
7,482
Malaysia
"'The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and dust [shall be] the serpent’s food. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,' says the LORD" (Isaiah 65:25).
Oh yeah. Lions feeding on grass, hay, corn etc.. They want to experiment with vegetarianism now. OTOH, maybe the sheep wud like to try some meat, just for a change. And they bite off some from the lions feeding next to them. The lions don't mind, of course, becos their meat grows back again on them as soon as it's bitten off by the sheep. And they'd be on best-buddy terms by then, anyway.

As for the serpents, they're going to be quite profoundly nutritionally challenged, if they were feeding on ash. Becos completely burnt ash has zero calorific value. No carbs, no proteins, no cellulose. Not even elemental carbon.

Whatever.
 
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JoanOfArc007

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
3,794
USA
Well, let's put it this way. There is currently no life form on the Moon, or Mars, or Saturn, or Jupiter. At least as far as our present level of scientific knowledge allow us to believe. Let's just imagine ourselves going forward by 20 million years say. To a time when there are life forms on one of them, or all of them, let's just say.

Which mechanism wud sound more likely for that to happen. Some all powerful archangel or deity visiting those places & physically, mechanically sculpting new life forms from the dust/soil there,? Or a very, very gradual formation of life forms - perhaps even spontaneous - when the conditions on those places become conducive to their initial formation?

One more thing, say on Earth humanity still somehow survives even to that time. Then they wud hv developed the technology to travel quite fast to Mars, Saturn, or Jupiter, by that time. And just imagine it, a bunch of human astronauts from Earth arriving on Saturn or Jupiter, one fine day, just as said all powerful archangel or deity was starting his life-form sculpting work there (If that was really the true mechanism). Now, is He going to chase our Earth astronauts away, lest they cause any disturbance to His work? Or perhaps He wud consider offering them the chance to help & participate in that first profound effort? Now, that wud be great teamwork.

Well, I am just imagining the possibilities.
Its interesting because those are the planets we know of. Could easily be other planets with life on them. One could say God already created all planets and beyond that all of the universe.
 
Jun 2016
1,860
England, 200 yards from Wales
We all have beliefs whether perhaps they are religious or not religious.
But surely well-founded beliefs are based on a reasonable degree of knowledge? How can one know what is the correct belief if there is no knowledge to base it on? To me (and others may see it differently) to say that one can have no knowledge about something but yet has a definite belief about it seems contradictory.
As for evolution, I know this to mean that humans have evolved from apes, question can be put forth how did this occur?
No, humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor. It occurred by means of genetic variation and natural selection. That is thoroughly well-established.

I for one as a Christian do believe in the Christian afterlife it is as they say a matter of faith. That said, also even a Christian alive today can not say what heaven or hell looks like.
Personally I couldn't have faith in any belief that isn't based on a reasonable degree of knowledge/evidence, without that I'm happy to stick with what you so sensibly said - "no-one can know the answer to this" - we just don't know.

There have been various miracles in human history , this lends to the view that religion is real.
I'll stick with Hume regarding historical evidence for miracles.

In 500 years what if Scientists as a majority have a different take on evolution.
Highly unlikely (if you mean the basic fact of evolution, rather than details of how it worked), there is so much evidence, but not impossible, they may also come to see gravitation or photo-synthesis or the role of viruses in disease differently, is that any reason to dismiss those things now?

Evolution it seems is not as concrete as the history we all know, like for example the Japanese attacked pearl harbour on Dec 7th 1941, that happend there can be no doubt about that. We know fore sure that the US civil war ended in 1865, WW2 ended in 1945.
I don't think there's much more doubt about the basic fact of it, though, as with historical events, there is always room for discussion about details.
But what has that to do with life after death, are you implying that belief in that depends on doubting evolution?