What edge did Eastern Steppe peoples have over Western Steppe peoples in the Ancient/Early middle ages that allowed them to replace them

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,950
Sydney
Indo Europeans were in Europe by the Hallstatt culture , that's 12 century BC
it is interesting to note this was the end of the last glaciation
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,738
New Delhi, India
Sparky, you missed a zero there. The glacial age ended around 10,000 BCE and not 12th Century BCE. Halstadt arose from Beaker Culture (2,500 BCE), which arose Samara Culture (5,000 BCE), which in its turn arose from Seroglazovka Culture (7,000 BCE). All these are considered Indo-European. As per my check in Wikipedia Seroglazovka (1) holds the record for being the oldest IE culture in Eurasia.

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Apr 2014
63
new york
Larger steppe in the east, for higher population, larger polities, larger area for composite bow use - its thriving and continual improvement


Purported East Asian visuospatial edge contributes in archery as well
 

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,950
Sydney
the steppe is an unforgiving environment , good years would see the population increase
bad years would see a lot of herders travel looking for food , or work
the settled agriculture were a natural prey

something similar to the Sahara pump , when the environment contract , it expel people toward the fringes
 
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Mar 2015
1,450
Yorkshire
I lifted this piece which seems relevant :

"The linguistic history of the Turkic languages can be followed in written sources from the 8th century on. Attempts at interpreting earlier materials as Turkic (e.g., the identification of Hunnic elements in Chinese sources from the 4th century ce) have failed. The Uighur, Oghuz, Kipchak, and Bolgar branches were already differentiated in the oldest known period. In subsequent centuries, Turkic underwent further divergence corresponding to its gradual diffusion. From the Eurasian steppes, Turkic-speaking groups penetrated other regions: the Uighur migrated toward eastern Turkistan, the Kipchak toward the Pontic steppes, and the Oghuz mainly southeastward, toward Iran, Anatolia, and so on. Some varieties proved amazingly expansive. From the 13th century on, Turkistan and Tatarstan were extensively Turkicized.

Of the Iranian languages of Central Asia, practically only Tajik survived.

The displacements of linguistic groups also led to mixture and levelling of Turkic varieties. Several areas, notably the Oxus region and Crimea, developed into major contact areas."

Firstly let me admit my ignorance (but then so are a hell of lot of supposed academics) of this topic - so info is welcomed. Turkish group comprises some 20 or so languages spread over a wide area from Turkey to Eastern most Siberia. It is related to Mongolian and Manchu\Tungric (according to the major academic view) - the Altaic Group. A minority add Korean and Japanese to this group but the majoirty view seems to prefer to view these languages as having heavy borrowings.

Naturally on its wanderings the language has picked up loan words from IE and Chinese but it is definitely not related to either.

Mongols were always low in number and were in minority even in Genghis Khan's army which had a very large Turkish (Tartar) component. The Manchus were never a factor in the West but conquered and were absorbed into China.

Attila's army had several leaders who had Turkish names and Attila himself may have been turkish leading a confederation of Germanics and Iranian subject groups.
 
Sep 2016
570
天下
Actually, the latest reanalysis of Jie (羯) sentence present in the Book of Jin (晋书) by Shimunek seems rather convincing that it represents an early Turkic language.
 

Haakbus

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
3,777
United States
Actually, the latest reanalysis of Jie (羯) sentence present in the Book of Jin (晋书) by Shimunek seems rather convincing that it represents an early Turkic language.
I thought Vovin made a good case it was Yeniseian: WHO WERE THE *KJET (羯) AND WHAT LANGUAGE DID THEY SPEAK?

...
Firstly let me admit my ignorance (but then so are a hell of lot of supposed academics) of this topic - so info is welcomed. Turkish group comprises some 20 or so languages spread over a wide area from Turkey to Eastern most Siberia. It is related to Mongolian and Manchu\Tungric (according to the major academic view) - the Altaic Group. A minority add Korean and Japanese to this group but the majoirty view seems to prefer to view these languages as having heavy borrowings.
...
The Altaic theory and is actually not held by as many scholars as it once was. There's really no evidence for common descent shared by any of the language families (including Turkic and Mongolic) just extensive and long-lasting borrowing and mutual influence. Korean was on the eastern fringe of this Sprachbund and the Altaic influence was actually fairly limited; Korean grammatical structure is still fundamentally Paleosiberian.
 
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Sep 2017
2
Germany
I read somewhere that this is due to China

Essentially, the constant threat of steppe raids triggered China to become more centralized in order to fight them, and this in turn caused the Eastern steppe nomads to become more centralized in order to successfully raid China. This caused the Eastern steppe nomads to become stronger than the Western steppe nomads, which causes steppe migrations to happen mainly from East to West.

For instance, the formation of the Xiongnu empire was caused by when the Qin dynasty tried to stop their raiding by capturing the Ordos region and evicting them from their pastures on the Yellow river (which would deny them a launching point for raids), and then build the Great Wall to keep them out. This led to the rise of Modu Chanyu, who would use this crisis to unite the tribes and form the Xiongnu empire. After the Qin was replaced by Han, the Han was initially pretty decentralized. However, the constant threat by the Xiongnu empire would prompt the Han dynasty to become more centralized, which eventually allowed them to defeat the Xiongnu empire after decades of war. And the Xiongnu, hardened by war with China, would be stronger than other neighboring tribes, and allow them to migrate all the way to the West to form the Hunnic empire. We would see this happen again for the Turks, the Khitians and the Mongols.
 
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