What happened if someone could not produce an Aryan certificate during the Third Reich?

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,742
SoCal
#11
There were two certificate. The big one and the small one.

The small one was going back to 1800 and the big one to 1750.

Small one was needed to be a civil servant, to join the Wehrmacht.

Big one to join the SS.

All this changed after 1942.
So, if one lived in Germany in Nazi times and had Sephardi Jewish ancestors who left Judaism before 1750, then one was good enough to join the SS?
 

Isleifson

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
3,870
Lorraine tudesque
#14
So, if one lived in Germany in Nazi times and had Sephardi Jewish ancestors who left Judaism before 1750, then one was good enough to join the SS?
Unlikely. The leaving started around 1800 when the literacy rate of the Gentile was at the some level then the Jews.
 

Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
33,734
T'Republic of Yorkshire
#15
Something else just occurred to me. Jews were denied citizenship rights. One thing you can't get without citizenship is a passport. Without a passport you can't enter most countries. This made it difficult for Jews to emigrate out of Germany. I heard one story of a Jewish family that went to China because that was one of the few countries that did not have border controls in place at that time. You could literally walk off of the boat and enter China. No one would stop you. But Jews trying to go anywhere else needed a passport and you couldn't get one without citizenship which you couldn't get without an Aryan certificate.
Are you sure about this? As far as I know, in order to leave Germany, people only needed a visa for another country, which I think could be paired with an identity document, not necessarily a passport.

Sugihara Chiune issued thousands of transit visas for Japan to Jewish refugees, often with false names, but these were accepted by the Nazi authorities.
 
Likes: Futurist

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,084
#16
Are you sure about this? As far as I know, in order to leave Germany, people only needed a visa for another country, which I think could be paired with an identity document, not necessarily a passport.

Sugihara Chiune issued thousands of transit visas for Japan to Jewish refugees, often with false names, but these were accepted by the Nazi authorities.
Was that Lithuania rather than Germany? Would that be rather Soviet authorities?

Chiune Sugihara - Wikipedia

Immigration to some countries required funds to prove you could support yourself, and with many doors closing during the 1930s. Lack of money as Jewish assets where siezed or administered such that they were very difficult to access, By 1938 Jewish passports were marked and they could not leave without paying a departure tax which could be hard to organize, and without their German pastors entry to another country could be very difficult. Teh Nazi regime was imposing movement, finacial restirctions on Jews at the same time tyring to force them to leave, extracting the maximum amount of money especially foreign currency seems to also been a focus.


https://www.bbc.com/bitesize/guides/z96v97h/revision/4
"The Nazis, who had been encouraging Jews to emigrate from 1933 onwards, now started “forced” emigration. Göring set up the Reich Central Office for Jewish Emigration (Reichszentrale für jüdische Auswanderung). 150,000 Jews were deported, but they had to pay a large “tax” before they could leave."
 

Chlodio

Ad Honorem
Aug 2016
3,934
Dispargum
#17
Are you sure about this? As far as I know, in order to leave Germany, people only needed a visa for another country, which I think could be paired with an identity document, not necessarily a passport.

Sugihara Chiune issued thousands of transit visas for Japan to Jewish refugees, often with false names, but these were accepted by the Nazi authorities.
I know it could be difficult for Jews to get immigration papers. Certainly many countries stopped issuing visas after a certain amount of refugee fatigue set in. Maybe it was visas not passports that Jews found difficult to obtain. Although the same issue comes up with other forms of identification. If you're not a citizen it can be difficult to get other documents as well.
 

Chlodio

Ad Honorem
Aug 2016
3,934
Dispargum
#18
By 1938 Jewish passports were marked and they could not leave without paying a departure tax which could be hard to organize,
Having a passport but being unable to leave because one couldn't pay the departure tax is tantamount to the same thing. Especially if your passport is marked because you're not a German citizen and therefore have to pay a much higher tax. The point I was trying to make is that citizenship defines a person's relationship to the state and affects one's ability to obtain state services such as documentation. But I acknowledge Naomasa's point about the difference between passports and visas.


https://www.bbc.com/bitesize/guides/z96v97h/revision/4
"The Nazis, who had been encouraging Jews to emigrate from 1933 onwards, now started “forced” emigration. Göring set up the Reich Central Office for Jewish Emigration (Reichszentrale für jüdische Auswanderung). 150,000 Jews were deported, but they had to pay a large “tax” before they could leave."
This was 1939. There were 600,000 Jews in Germany in 1933. This does not count Austrian and Czechoslovakian Jews that were later annexed into Germany. 300,000 Jews legally emigrated out of Germany between 1933 and 1939. 100,000 left in 1933 alone. These were probably the ones who could most easily leave - they had skills that would be welcomed in other countries and they could afford to move. 100,000 Jews emigrated out of Austria in 1938 and 39. Adolph Eichman was in charge of Austria and he was especially ruthless. Most of those 150,000 Jews deported in 1939 were probably from Austria. This might leave 150,000 German Jews deported between 1934 and 1938. Clearly there was a slow down after the initial rush which coincides pretty closely with the appearance of the Nuremburg Laws in '35. Coincidence is not causation, but it's still curious nonetheless.