What if Churchill had accepted Hitler's peace offer sent by Rudolph Hess

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,232
SoCal
#41
Also, @Kubis Gabcik: Please keep in mind that countries generally don't like hostage situations. Having the Nazis tell the West something along the lines of "You let us do whatever we want, or we're going to murder the Jews under our control!" doesn't seem very appealing to Westerners because it's essentially using the Jews as hostages to get what the Nazis want. It would be the equivalent of the US telling Germany in 1942 to end the war immediately and withdraw west of the Oder-Neisse Line or the US is going to slaughter millions of Germans who live in the US. It's certainly not a very realistic scenario, but the point here isn't actually to be realistic but to show that countries don't react very well to situations that involve hostages--especially where these hostages are threatened to be murdered unless a certain country significantly alters its policy in a particular way.

This might also be a part of the reason as to why negotiations to free Hungarian Jews from Nazi rule in exchange for giving the Nazis tens of thousands of Western-made trucks for use in the Nazi war against the Soviets never actually went anywhere. Again, countries simply don't like hostages being used in order to extort them and make unreasonable and unfair demands on them.
 
Jan 2015
3,363
Front Lines of the Pig War
#42
What percentage of Polish Jews died before the Holocaust began? With 9% rations, one would think that an awful lot of Polish Jews must have already died before the Holocaust, but was this actually the case?
There was a lot of food smuggled in, only 100,000 or so died IIRC.

The point being that the Holocaust idea didn't suddenly pop into Hitler's head after the dastardly Brits thwarted his plans, it was always his intent to eliminate them from Europe by what whatever means possible.

If Buchanan thinks that there would have been some pleasant Jewish migration to Madagascar then he's deluding himself.
 

redcoat

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
7,784
Stockport Cheshire UK
#43
Likes: Futurist

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,232
SoCal
#44
While Jewish emigration was forbidden in late October 1941, the mass murder of Jews in Soviet territory started In the first days of the invasion.
Evidence for the Implementation of the Final Solution. Christopher Browning. Part I.
Yes, Nazis and their local collaborators began taking the initiative in murdering Jews during Operation Barbarossa. However, the change in Nazi policy towards mass extermination of the Jews occurred a little later. Beforehand, the Nazis and their local collaborators certainly enjoyed committing extremely massive pogroms against the Jews (up to 34,000 Jews being murdered in one mega-pogrom at Babi Yar), but back then the Nazis might have still been open to the possibility of deporting the surviving Jews under their rule elsewhere as opposed to murdering them en masse.
 
Nov 2011
4,767
Ohio, USA
#45
TBH, I'm concerned that by the time that Britain would have rearmed, it might have been too late. After all, would the Soviet Union have actually been able to survive a Nazi invasion without British and US aid?
Hard to say, but I think the Nazi invasion was asking too much of itself regardless of outside support for the Soviets.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,232
SoCal
#46
Hard to say, but I think the Nazi invasion was asking too much of itself regardless of outside support for the Soviets.
I agree that a quick strike against the USSR would be unlikely to succeed since if Britain makes peace, the USSR is likely to be more prepared for a Nazi invasion in 1941. That said, though, even if the USSR survives the initial shock, there's a risk that the lack of Western aid (Lend-Lease, et cetera) might doom it in 1942 or 1943.
 
Nov 2011
4,767
Ohio, USA
#47
I agree that a quick strike against the USSR would be unlikely to succeed since if Britain makes peace, the USSR is likely to be more prepared for a Nazi invasion in 1941. That said, though, even if the USSR survives the initial shock, there's a risk that the lack of Western aid (Lend-Lease, et cetera) might doom it in 1942 or 1943.
Ahh, but 1942-43 is likely when Britain and France could re-enter the fray after the 'peace' and invade Germany while German forces are bogged down in the SU.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,232
SoCal
#48
Ahh, but 1942-43 is likely when Britain and France could re-enter the fray after the 'peace' and invade Germany while German forces are bogged down in the SU.
France isn't going to reenter anything under Petain. He won't be interested and, in any case, Germany won't allow it. Please remember that Germany is likely to impose a Versailles upon France in a peace settlement and thus prevent France from building a large military.
 
Nov 2011
4,767
Ohio, USA
#49
France isn't going to reenter anything under Petain. He won't be interested and, in any case, Germany won't allow it. Please remember that Germany is likely to impose a Versailles upon France in a peace settlement and thus prevent France from building a large military.
The French just have to break the terms after Germany attacks the SU. Remember, the Germans aren't occupying France anymore.
 

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