What if the Axis were "the good guys"?

Oct 2009
3,610
San Diego
#32
How much of an impact would it have if the Axis powers were "the good guys" in World War II (as in, objectively superior to the Allies from a moral standpoint) and did not commit any of the heinous acts we remember them for today? Would this change the outcome of any campaigns, or even the war in its entirety? And what about after; would we still see trials for crimes against the peace and subsequent oppression of these nations, or would we look at a very different post-war world?

- There is no holocaust or expulsion of Jews under the German government, and its racial policies are not notably worse than other western nations of the time.
- German, Japanese, Italian and other Axis forces do not commit any notable war crimes and are morally on par with, if not superior, to the Allies in terms of how they conduct the war.
- Germany seeks only to restore its old borders, meaning they will still attack Poland for Danzig, but not conquer the whole country. They do not desire any further Lebensraum.
- Other than the German-speaking territories, Germany will support eastern European nations to independently stand up against the Soviet Union.
- Japan sets aside its imperialistic ambitions and genuinely attempts to liberate Asia from western colonialism, as well as help its allies develop and industrialize. The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere will be an alliance based on equality and mutual benefit for all its member states.
- If Japan sends troops to China, it is solely to help a legitimate and independent Chinese government restore the peace. They commit no massacres, rapes or other war crimes, use no chemical or biological weapons, and treat the Chinese people and POWs well.
- If Germany launches Operation Barbarossa, it is solely to destroy communism and liberate the eastern European people from Soviet oppression. They do not commit genocide or attempt to create Lebensraum, and treat the occupied people and Soviet POWs well.
- Whatever other notable war crimes, crimes against humanity or immoral acts the Axis are guilty of that I may have forgotten to list here, also do not happen.

I don't see this as a possible thing. Fascism is inherently NOT a "good" thing- there is no benevolent fascism... it is autocratic, authoritarian, and kleptocratic.
Moreover- you simply can Not try to invade and subsume other nations without provocation and Still be the "good guy".

Sorry- you're just stuck with starting a war makes you a villain.
No way to redeem it. And yes- in my Book the USA was a villain in invading Iraq.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="
" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
'
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,197
SoCal
#34
May be i didnt understand question right, but Axis would be "good guys" only in the case when they win.

... I have noticed that by some magical coincidence all winers always were "good guys", and all the loosers "bad guys". :)
The US won its war in the Philippines at the start of the 20th century and yet it was still the bad guy in that war IMHO.
 
Jan 2014
1,093
Rus
#35
The US won its war in the Philippines at the start of the 20th century and yet it was still the bad guy in that war IMHO.
Now. After more than 100 years.

When power of USA would fall Germany would say that Hitler was not bad. I am sure.

Like French said that Napoleon was not bad when they overthrown Bourbons.
 
Likes: Futurist

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,197
SoCal
#37
Now. After more than 100 years.

When power of USA would fall Germany would say that Hitler was not bad. I am sure.

Like French said that Napoleon was not bad when they overthrown Bourbons.
Some Americans criticized the Philippine-American War at the time as well, though:

George Frisbie Hoar - Wikipedia

"You have sacrificed nearly ten thousand American lives—the flower of our youth. You have devastated provinces. You have slain uncounted thousands of the people you desire to benefit. You have established reconcentration camps. Your generals are coming home from their harvest bringing sheaves with them, in the shape of other thousands of sick and wounded and insane to drag out miserable lives, wrecked in body and mind. You make the American flag in the eyes of a numerous people the emblem of sacrilege in Christian churches, and of the burning of human dwellings, and of the horror of the water torture. Your practical statesmanship which disdains to take George Washington and Abraham Lincoln or the soldiers of the Revolution or of the Civil War as models, has looked in some cases to Spain for your example. I believe—nay, I know—that in general our officers and soldiers are humane. But in some cases they have carried on your warfare with a mixture of American ingenuity and Castilian cruelty.

Your practical statesmanship has succeeded in converting a people who three years ago were ready to kiss the hem of the garment of the American and to welcome him as a liberator, who thronged after your men when they landed on those islands with benediction and gratitude, into sullen and irreconcilable enemies, possessed of a hatred which centuries can not eradicate."
 
Jan 2014
1,093
Rus
#38
Some Americans criticized the Philippine-American War at the time as well, though:

George Frisbie Hoar - Wikipedia

"You have sacrificed nearly ten thousand American lives—the flower of our youth. You have devastated provinces. You have slain uncounted thousands of the people you desire to benefit. You have established reconcentration camps. Your generals are coming home from their harvest bringing sheaves with them, in the shape of other thousands of sick and wounded and insane to drag out miserable lives, wrecked in body and mind. You make the American flag in the eyes of a numerous people the emblem of sacrilege in Christian churches, and of the burning of human dwellings, and of the horror of the water torture. Your practical statesmanship which disdains to take George Washington and Abraham Lincoln or the soldiers of the Revolution or of the Civil War as models, has looked in some cases to Spain for your example. I believe—nay, I know—that in general our officers and soldiers are humane. But in some cases they have carried on your warfare with a mixture of American ingenuity and Castilian cruelty.

Your practical statesmanship has succeeded in converting a people who three years ago were ready to kiss the hem of the garment of the American and to welcome him as a liberator, who thronged after your men when they landed on those islands with benediction and gratitude, into sullen and irreconcilable enemies, possessed of a hatred which centuries can not eradicate."
This wasnt mainstream
 
Likes: Futurist